New Favorite Cousin - Chapters 29-31 This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me Read-along

This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me Read-Along:  Maggie’s Adoption, Everard’s Schemes & the Fortress Attack

In this Book Dragon Banter read-along episode, hosts Sage, Katherine, and Zinzi Bree discuss This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me by Ilona Andrews, focusing on Maggie’s adoption into the Demar family, the subtext-laden banter between Solentine and Everard, and how Maggie’s new legitimacy shifts the political chessboard—especially as a potential strategic match for Everard. They unpack the characters’ mutual manipulation, and Everard’s tactical brilliance during the mercenary assault on the fortress. The hosts also cover Maggie confirming the Butcher’s death in the Shear’s morgue, speculate about fast-travel magic, and analyze Maggie’s clever move to recruit Tillmar as a spy, including the contrast between Hreban’s slave contract and Everard’s honor-bound oath. 

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Our Summer Read-Along: This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me (Bookshop.org affiliate link): 

https://bookshop.org/p/books/this-kingdom-will-not-kill-me-ilona-andrews/f544c8f1dba95f55?ean=9781250377265&next=t&aid=124342&listref=book-dragon-book-club-reads

00:00 Cold Open Chaos

00:14 Podcast Intro

01:19 Adoption Reveal

05:52 Shipping Strategy Talk

07:26 Backstory Chessboard

09:55 Everard Marriage Subtext

15:17 Maggie Denial Triage

18:41 Fast Travel Mysteries

20:01 Butcher Morgue Closure

23:58 Cliffhanger Theories

25:56 Fortress Attack Swordplay

30:50 Tillmar Spy Oath

36:53 Wrap Up Next Reading

Transcript

Zinzi Brookbree 0:00

Maggie checks that the butcher is truly dead. Maggie, I mean Marigold Damar and Solentine are now cousins, and the fortress is attacked. Oh, no Welcome, we see the assassins have failed. We are Book Dragon Banter, a podcast where three aspiring authors talk all things books. More fantasy focused, but not exclusive. Join Sage, Katherine, and me, Zinzi Bree, as we read This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me by Ilona Andrews, all for the love of story.

Sage Moreaux 0:29

Read or reread along with us. We're so glad you're here. Now's a great time to hit that subscribe button. Are you in or are you out? By now, we hope you're all in. said, we're an explicit podcast, so we can give our honest and unfiltered opinions.

Zinzi Brookbree 0:43

This not so mini season is sponsored by Book Dragon, Inc., our company where we host writing retreats online with workshops, book coach access, writing sprints, and community. You can find more information about that in our show notes. Even though we're most of the way through the book, we'll still be keeping spoilers out of the rest of these read-along episodes. just so our listeners know, if there's a little bit of funkiness going on with Katherine's audio, it's because there is a cat purring on her lap Sage and Katherine are still sticking to the plan of not reading ahead and only reading, uh, what they have been assigned, while I have read the whole book multiple times. Help. I'm so excited to talk about chapter 29 even though, like, I was waiting so, not patiently, for you guys to get to the reveal, right, in chapter, in chapter 23 about Reynald actually being Everard. But this particular chapter where Maggie gets adopted, and any time Solentine, Everard, and Maggie are in a room together, like, I'm just grinning the whole time, feet kicking, not necessarily between Everard and Maggie, but actually between Solentine and Everard as they are having a conversation beyond what Maggie is paying attention to. what did you guys think of that scene? It's one of my favorites.

Katherine Suzette 2:03

I loved it I wanna be a fly on the wall to hear what they actually like continue to banter about because the authors clearly led on to they know how she is positioned familially now to be a benefit to Everard but she's she for one of the first times in the book it she's mentioned her past life but this is the f one of the first times where it's really impacting her in the present and she's not just like Oh why am I not worried about that But instead in this moment she actually misses her real family misses her old life for a moment thinks about the implications and doesn't hear how she's become even more relevant to Everard and his plans Like the dude's so sneaky He he always seems to come out on top whether it's in these like banter things or it's in all the plans Like he may not know all that Maggie does but like how does he keep doing this Boggles my mind

Sage Moreaux 2:58

Zinzi, you had said early on that the authors were really trying to write a character in Maggie that was smarter than they are, like an incredibly smart character, and they pulled it off. I think they've done a great job with that. But Everard is just as brilliant. Like, he has his own tactical mind. I'm very curious to know what plans he's making that Maggie doesn't know about. We don't know about a lot of her plans, but I'm wondering what he's doing that we don't know about. And, seeing his banter with her, his banter with Solentine, it's just like, agree. The two of them together, Everard and Solentine, is like almost more enjoyable to listen to, and then just have Maggie be like, "Wait, what?" I was comparing it to the first chapter where she's just learned about and Solentine comes in the window, and the two of them are fighting over her, and she is like, she doesn't know Solentine, like he doesn't know that she is a person of power at this point, right?

Zinzi Brookbree 3:54

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 3:56

she's kind of on the side while the two of them are having a standoff, and it was a very enjoyable scene, although I didn't love Solentine in that moment because he was being kind of dickish in my opinion, to her.

Zinzi Brookbree 4:08

I loved him for being a dick because it just meant that it- 'cause, right, 'cause, like, he's in there and he's just gonna, I'm This is a problem, Maggie's a problem, I need to eliminate the problem. Like, that's his mindset, and I appreciate that it's not an instance of, like, oh, she's super smart, she's gonna be super valuable. I'm just gonna fall in love with her, too, and roll over and be a puppy and show his, his tummy, right? Like, he comes in solidly who he is, is an assassin, is looking at the political implications, and murdering her is the plan

Sage Moreaux 4:41

And that's super fair, and yes, I would not have loved it if he had just rolled over for her. But in her mind, like she loved h- he was one of her favorite characters, so for me in like through Maggie's perspective, I like loved him, and then he was doing all these really dickish things, and I was like, "Wait a minute," but, but we love him. Now, obviously it's, it's different when he's doing those things to you versus to other people in the story that you're reading. but yeah, then to see how this, now he is manipulating her for his own ends, just as they all seem to be manipulating one another, and it's very enjoyable

Katherine Suzette 5:21

I I would not have ever imagined myself saying something like this but I agree all of the characters manipulating each other in this moment is entertaining I have a thing against manipulation in real life but following it on the page seems very different

Zinzi Brookbree 5:38

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 5:39

as I was saying those words, I was like, wow, I really am against people being manipulated and in reality, this is what books are so great for, right? You can, explore little elements that you wouldn't choose. I don't think Everett is the kind of character that I would think was, maybe physically, but personality-wise, I wouldn't find him so sexy, I don't think, in real life. But in, on the page, I'm like, oh yeah,

Zinzi Brookbree 6:02

when it comes to Everard, he's a character that I love to ship with Maggie or with Solentine, but he's not one that I ever put on, like, I don't want him as a book boyfriend. He is not, he's not book boyfriend material to me, right? I want him to stay with the person that he has chosen and is obsessed over because she's a good match, right? Because they're both strategic, to me, they're more like two snakes who are weaving around each other and deciding who's gonna strike first and doing this dance, which I find very different than the typical romantasy setup because they're both going, yes, we acknowledge, we, at least Maggie, even in the carriage ride that happens later on, she admits that she has feelings for him. In the moment she says that her feelings make her want to brain him, but, like,

Sage Moreaux 6:57

Love that

Zinzi Brookbree 6:58

as a, yeah, as a reader, right, like, we know she wants him, but it's a matter of, for her, having principles, holding herself back, and when she chooses him, it's gonna be earned, and it's not gonna be a, "Oh, 'cause he's so hot. 'Cause I couldn't resist anymore," right?

Sage Moreaux 7:20

Yeah. She's like, "He's so hot right in this moment. He's so hot." No. And I appreciate

Zinzi Brookbree 7:25

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 7:25

a lot. I think it's in the adoption scene, because Maggie does more of the backstory of the Demars, and Solentine's family. And I've been having this sneaking suspicion, it's a little bit, again, based off of Game of Thrones, which I read a long time ago. But in that book series, and I'm sure so many others, there was a lot of importance on the history of, the previous generation that impacted the characters of the time and all the main characters that you would read their perspectives of. But it was, hinted at but not revealed fully until much later in the series, I keep wondering, is it that we are just getting more of Solentine's, understanding of Solentine's character since we're never actually in his point of view? Like, is this Maggie creating more understanding of Solentine's character, or is this little bit of information also I mean, I assume it would be not either/or, but it would be an and,

Zinzi Brookbree 8:26

Both

Sage Moreaux 8:27

to be important, if not in this book, in one of the books later in the series to, is there some big backstory from the previous generation or from when Sol and Everard were much younger gonna come out as being really important? 'Cause there's a lot about past history that's been woven in more and more as we go. So I'm really like, is this just, like, setting the stage? Is it world building? Is it giving us character insight, or is it actually going to be information that is, you know, necessary, again, either later in this book, which we're getting close to act three now, or book two, which I hear is on its way to being finished, or book three down the line? Which maybe Zinzi can't comment on, but what do you think, Katherine?

Katherine Suzette 9:18

I definitely think this book one is setting the the chess table so to speak a little bit more The characters are getting placed We are we're exposing the different spaces and what's going on and I think book two is gonna pick up with with the readers and the characters knowing a lot more about what's going on in this overall ar arch of a plot for the whole series but I mean we will we will solve some plot problems and things like that It'll be a very satisfying book on its own even if we didn't have a book number two But we we are setting a lot of scene in book one

Zinzi Brookbree 9:55

I wanna go back to the conversation between Solentine and Everard that they're having while Maggie is just kind of like, "I've signed the papers, I'm now a Demar and not part of my own family, and I miss my family, and what is my, you know, if my body went missing, my family's probably still searching for me or grieving for me," and all that, you know. She mind spirals out while they're having this conversation. And I love that the writers chose, right, this conversation is happening, and it's not being explicitly stated that Everard is like, "Thank you, Sol, you just made Maggie a person that is easier for me to legitimately marry and have political standing." Right? Like, that's the conversation that's happening in the background as far as my, you know, subtext interpretation of it is. that now because Maggie, even with the line, that Everard says, "Oh, I've known her since she was nine years old, and she was adopted into your family, and I've been meeting her every time I've gone to, your family's holdings," to establish, oh, there's a relationship here that's built. When I go to marry her, it's gonna make sense for the politics, because she's a minor noble now and perfectly within the realm of someone that I can marry, instead of just some random woman off the street with no background, no history, no money, no family coming in, right? Sol has legitimized her not just to Kair Toren but also as a strategic marriage partner for Everard

Sage Moreaux 11:35

I loved that so much. That's the same interpretation that I got from that, and I loved how Solentine felt like he was putting one over on Everard and he was like, "I've got her out of your grasp. You know, now she's part of my family and I'm claiming the power of this a little bit out, out..." 'Cause they're like friends, but you know, a little bit uneasy, right? I think they genu- genuinely like each other. Yeah, I think they genuinely like each other, but they also both know that, they would put their own allegiances for their families first, right?

Zinzi Brookbree 12:07

It's they're best friends, they respect each other, yeah, they appreciate each other, but they also know 100%, right, Solentine is gonna take care of the Demars and Everard is gonna do whatever he needs to for Selva, right? that's both of their bottom lines, and they understand that about each other. but because working together mutually benefits both of those things, their bottom lines, they've built up this great, relationship and working partnership, and have grown up together essentially because their borders, they border each other's lands

Sage Moreaux 12:43

And in that situation where you are the, you know, a child of a noble family, you probably have limited people that you can actually hang out with regularly that are at your same, rank, right? So they have limited selection for friends, and they're like, "Oh, I, I enjoy your company," whatnot. But so yeah, so he's like, "Oh yeah, I've got Maggie

Zinzi Brookbree 13:04

Your peers

Sage Moreaux 13:05

Ha ha ha." And then he's like, "Oh, great, thanks. Now my childhood sweetheart can become my wife, and yeah, the king will be pissed,

Zinzi Brookbree 13:14

we get more information about Solentine's family, right? And now Maggie's new adoptive family, which is, Izarn, Griel, I'm blanking on the other names in this exact moment, but like I'm excited for the future of getting to know those characters better expanding her found family, right? That she's, she's got a legitimate legal found family now, Solentine goes to his Aunt Griel, "It's with her permission that this is happening." So that means we've got even more smart characters on the board that are gonna be on Maggie's side

Katherine Suzette 13:50

Yeah kind wondered if the reason that Everard opposed Maggie becoming a Dumar had more to do with the fact that Maggie would then as you said Zinzi sign the papers immediately even more so because he'd opposed it than for the fact that he actually thought it was a bad idea I think that we that some things might be exposed that are not as optimal for Maggie because she's getting involved in some family politics there and Everard knew that that would come with that signing But like if it's so good for him why would he oppose it right And I think it's because it got Maggie to sign it

Zinzi Brookbree 14:30

You think he was using reverse psychology? He was just, I'm gonna act like I'm upset about this, but actually, no, this is great"?

Katherine Suzette 14:37

It could be that there are some bad things about being involved with Demars They are an assassin family so she is exposing herself to more danger but is it more danger than she's already getting herself into without legitimacy And therefore I think that Everard especially the way with that that that scene ends he's quite selfsatisfied actually

Zinzi Brookbree 14:58

It's either way is a win for him, right? If he, if she had taken an identity, from the Dukedom of Selva, that would've been a win for him in that he gets to continue exerting control. but this is also for a win for him because now she's legitimized as a marriageable partner. one of the things that annoys me with Maggie, is that she keeps making the assumption that he's gonna pick so- he's gonna marry Omelyana or marry some other politically advantageous person instead of marrying her, and that she's gonna be, a mistress or a piece on the side. Um, and my annoyance with Everard is that their conversations when she even kind of accuses him of that, he doesn't state that won't be the case. Now, I don't know that she would believe him even if he did, but he should've tried, right? On that conversation down the staircase when he starts listing out his titles and is like,

Sage Moreaux 16:00

My

Zinzi Brookbree 16:00

Let me reintroduce myself so you can know who I really am," and all of the titles are... Yes, yep, just the peacock strut. He's such an arrogant ass, but we still like him

Sage Moreaux 16:12

about I know, how, that, that was the scene where I was like, wow, you really are an ass, yet look, she still thinks you're so hot. To list out all his titles, I'm like, that, so that's getting to know you, right? This is like probably the least of her concern. We already know she doesn't trust you for lying. Like she's pissed that you you lied to her about who you are. Getting to know you is not a list of your titles. but I would, I would think back to the marriage thing, I would think that Maggie would, if she admitted to herself that he might marry her, she would let, I think she would cave so much faster, right? She's really, she wants him. She knows that their sex would be super good. She's super attracted to him. He's definitely a, she mentioned that she wanted a equal partner. He's smart, he's savvy, he's s- you know, stubborn, all the things that she basically is also.

Zinzi Brookbree 17:06

She's keeping herself in denial about this to hold the line

Sage Moreaux 17:10

Oh, so holding the line. Yeah. That, that's my feeling about it.

Katherine Suzette 17:13

She she's still in the like survival mode with her brain Like she's she's she's playing the game She's not planning for the future Right now I don't think that she's fully considered or embodied the fact that she may be staying in this world and may have a life after the end of like book two that she's read in her world You know That that there's there's stuff that comes after that So honestly I think that she is not playing dumb about her future and her potential connections in this world with Solentine and his family and Everard and Selva but that it it's just not a big factor on the chessboard as as she sees it right now She's she's not focusing on it yet Her future is not a big deal yet

Zinzi Brookbree 18:03

Hmm.

Sage Moreaux 18:04

I agree with you, Katherine, she's so in the moment of, stemming the blood, right? Triage. She's, like, doing triage

Zinzi Brookbree 18:13

in triage

Sage Moreaux 18:14

situation, right? And when you're in triage mode, you don't think ahead, you just think, like, in the moment. So that, yeah, that makes sense. Although, I also think if she allowed herself to think that if he would marry her, she would change bedrooms pretty quick.

Zinzi Brookbree 18:28

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux 18:28

was another point that came up

Zinzi Brookbree 18:30

Do you...

Sage Moreaux 18:30

really

Zinzi Brookbree 18:31

this is just me. I think he would come to her bedroom. I don't think she'd go sleep in his she wants things on her terms

Katherine Suzette 18:39

Hey Yeah

Sage Moreaux 18:40

I did wanna say, there was a mention of how Solentine had gone to, I forget the name of his area of land, to his home, and then back, and that he couldn't possibly have

Zinzi Brookbree 18:50

Degara

Sage Moreaux 18:50

so quickly. so there's definitely been multiple hints throughout about fast travel of some sort. and this is leading in, I just keep having ideas about, like, there's fast travel, how did Maggie get to Keratorren in the first place? What is up with the author? How did the books get to Earth? Why is there only two of them? How can they have been written the future when she is coming in on this day? And, I'm sure it'll come out at some point. I don't really have theories. But it's just turning over and over in my head that I don't feel I have all the pieces, or if I have read all the pieces, I haven't onto them enough to put them all together. And I'm really hoping some of that comes out in this book. but I'm just gonna call out when I notice little moments, like there was already talk about it at one point of somebody showing up maybe it was Everard, I don't remember. Somebody showed up faster than she thought they could. This is now at least the second time this has been mentioned of somebody traveling more quickly than she believes possible. So there's clearly magic that Maggie doesn't know about, there's lots of things that she's like, "Hey, that wasn't in the book." So I think that those are gonna start to weave together.

Zinzi Brookbree 20:01

Speaking of one of the things that she wasn't aware of in the book, the Shear's larder, she gets to go to basically the Shear's morgue, right, where they're holding the Butcher's body, and it's listed that there are two other bodies on slabs. I'm pretty sure one of those other bodies is Velpor, the knight that got killed, right, when Everard had to reveal himself. But I don't know who the other body is that the Shear's maybe is holding on to. So I found that interesting that there were three in there. to you guys, another murder has happened. It's bringing back up her trauma. She knows she can come back to life, and now that's an extra layer in her trauma of like, could the Butcher come back? Will that nightmare ever truly be over? And so we get the scene of her getting to go confirm and hopefully move forward and let that go and let that trauma have less power over her. What did you guys think of it?

Sage Moreaux 20:59

Appreciated that scene for a couple of levels. Like, one, the world-building was really cool. It was cool to see the mushrooms that keep everything from rotting coming back in

Zinzi Brookbree 21:08

Yep

Sage Moreaux 21:09

Like, it keeps your food from rotting, well, it makes sense that it would keep bodies, like a morgue situation also.

Zinzi Brookbree 21:14

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 21:15

big freezer. I also liked, like Maggie is pretty insistent that she trusts Everard with her life, but not with her freedom, right? And this is a nice moment where he is doing that whole protective thing, but he's there for her

Zinzi Brookbree 21:31

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 21:32

emotionally and physically way, and I liked that because I do feel like if they do end up together, there is all of this, presumably there'll be other stuff that comes up too because of slow burn kind of things, but they do have to rebuild the... And I was already surprised she said she trusted him because I would have lost a lot of trust from all of those lies. But he had, I guess during his time as Reynald, he had proved himself trustworthy of taking, like protecting her from, trying to keep her from dying. and she believes that he wants to protect her to keep her a piece of power for himself, right? but so I liked that there was this moment of like he's caretaking her also and by, and giving her, and I love that she's like stabbing the body.

Katherine Suzette 22:21

I appreciate that the stabbing helped her to feel like he was actually dead as opposed to just smashing his face in Like it's a it's a totally different sensation I think for her brain maybe like a different of of him being actually dead by like cutting into him I've also been wondering a lot about the travel stuff and this was something that I took note of in these chapters as well cause I think in just this section the moving fast was mentioned twice I think and then there was also a time with the Butcher and there was the time with Everard getting to Reynald in the first place earlier in the books So there have been several mentions now about this magic travel that she's like What And like the book that she read did not give her this information and I don't know if it's special to the nobles I don't know if it's special to magic users I don't know if it's this pearl or bead that they crack and travel places or whatnot

Zinzi Brookbree 23:17

for clarification, the Butcher had, he had a bloodline magic that allowed him to speed up, so he had that. That's part of how he was able to move quickly, and then there was something else, which is the mor beads, M-O-R-R.

Katherine Suzette 23:30

beads Yes

Zinzi Brookbree 23:32

and those are created by mages, and they're tuned to, like, a specific weight. They go a specific distance, when they're broken, And Everard gets really pissed at Maggie 'cause he was afraid if she would- jumped on him when it was used, it would splatter her across the plaza. and then there is another mode of travel that Solentine and Everard are using, and that's all that I will say about it because spoilers

Katherine Suzette 23:58

learn something about this travel by the end of the book probably because Maggie will have to use it herself and she'll have to pry that information out of them But I think that this information could be relevant to us figuring out how Maggie traversed the worlds It may even accidentally send her back at the end of this book

Zinzi Brookbree 24:20

Mm.

Sage Moreaux 24:20

I was just gonna say, like, if I was the writer of this kind of story, I would absolutely have her accidentally go back to Earth right in a, like, most intense moment,

Zinzi Brookbree 24:32

an inconvenient way

Katherine Suzette 24:34

to think about her future and staying yeah

Zinzi Brookbree 24:38

That's your chosen cliffhanger for the end of book one?

Sage Moreaux 24:42

I would prefer not a cliffhanger because book two's not out yet. But,

Katherine Suzette 24:47

publish quickly please

Sage Moreaux 24:50

yeah, I assume there'll be some amount of cliffhanger. Sometimes books end on, like, such a cliffhanger, and that's not my favorite, but, possibly it will. I was it could be that, somebody's about to die, you know, Everard's about to die, and she or Solentine, somebody she cares about is about to die, and she is whisked back to Earth, and she's just like, "Oh, fuck," and then the book ends. That would be incredible. I guess I wouldn't be so mad at that. I would just be, like, desperate for anything I could get about book two.

Katherine Suzette 25:23

one of the other thoughts that I had is that she will quickly have to figure out how to get back to her world for some reason maybe she figures out who her father really is in this world Maybe she figures Some some information lands in her lap So I don't know if book one ends with her going back to her world or if book two opens up with her actually making it So I don't know if it's on purpose or if it's accidental but if it's accidental then like all of this travel and the moor beads and the magic whatever some part of that I propose is relevant to how that world transition works.

Zinzi Brookbree 25:56

I'm gonna redirect you guys real quick onto another key moment, which is the mercenaries, coming and attacking the fortress, and then, Everard stepping out with a giant sword that is not his to go defend the place and Maggie even pointing out how strategic it was that, he planned, at some point, I'm gonna use the sword. If there's an attack that happens, this is a prime opportunity to set up, Valpor being dumped in Hreban's backyard with a bunch of bodies surrounding him and send the, Knight of the Conquerors off in that direction instead of continuing to hunt Everard in the city.

Sage Moreaux 26:38

This was where I was like, okay, this is the moment when that reveal happened of that's why he came out using this big handed weapon and still was so good at killing. he is like a artist of sword fighting, right? Like a like a ballet dancer of sword fighting. It's very nicely written. I really enjoy reading those, those fight scenes because it just feels so elegant. But I had two thoughts about it. One is that is where I really felt like Everard proved himself to be extremely strategic he's been strategic all along, but this was such a big preemptive thinking around it, and beautifully executed and handled all the way through, right? Even when the one guy, like, Til- Tillman? No,

Zinzi Brookbree 27:26

Hilmar

Sage Moreaux 27:27

Tilmar. When Tilmar, excused himself from the fight, like that didn't change his intention in any way. He just like brilliantly handled it, and I- that's where I was like, oh, he is savvy and I wonder what he's plotting We didn't know, and we don't know everything Maggie plots. We clearly don't know everything that Everard is plotting either. But it also made me think that another way that he's kind of Maggie's foil is, like she's Maggie the Undying 'cause she comes back to life, but he is almost I'm just like need to knock on wood right here because he seems like he's Everard the Undying because he is so good at fighting, and he just It's like people the, the Butcher was attacking and she thought he was gonna die for sure, and he just was like, "It was no big deal." and he even makes a line. She's like, "Aren't you tired?" And he was like, "From that

Zinzi Brookbree 28:17

From that?

Sage Moreaux 28:18

out in the cour- courtyard?"

Zinzi Brookbree 28:19

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 28:19

super heavy chain mail and this giant sword and yeah. So I, I do believe that he could die. I believe that I don't think that he will die for good, but I think there could be a moment where Maggie thinks he's dead potentially, but it feels like he's a little bit undying because his prowess is so amazing the

Zinzi Brookbree 28:41

Yeah. I do wanna comment here, there is his magic bloodline that does make him extra human, right? A little superhuman, all that, which excuses some of this. But I also appreciate that the authors showed us while he was Reynald, he's practicing his swordsmanship, he's doing his forms. It's not like, "Oh, I haven't done this in, in years, but I'm still a super swordsman." It's, no, he is actively working on retaining the skills that allow him to do these fights. So I appreciate that extra, work into his character and making his abilities believable, and making him into someone who is competent, and we can see why, and not just competent because, oh, he has to be because he's the male main lead,

Katherine Suzette 29:31

Yeah I like to see him working hard at it to be finessing his skills every day

Sage Moreaux 29:38

So does Maggie

Katherine Suzette 29:39

Oh Yes,

Zinzi Brookbree 29:39

Yes she does

Katherine Suzette 29:40

I feel like I I get these like how do we put it these days you know the way the culture moves and changes I'm like heart eyes

Zinzi Brookbree 29:48

Mm, mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 29:50

the scene of it didn't happen in this section, but she was talking about like watching him, you know, practice, and

Zinzi Brookbree 29:57

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 29:58

so many books where the, the fem- the women like watch the sword fighters at practice, and I'm like, yeah, I could see you didn't have television. what are you gonna do today? I'm gonna go watch the sword fighters practice.

Katherine Suzette 30:08

Me

Sage Moreaux 30:09

like a good plan.

Katherine Suzette 30:11

Somebody invite Me to go with them please

Sage Moreaux 30:14

Yeah, where can I sign up for that?

Katherine Suzette 30:16

Maybe a Ren Faire I don't know if it would be the the kind of skill level we are being teased with in the books but maybe

Zinzi Brookbree 30:26

This is why people go to Medieval Times and, and to Renaissance fairs to go see. I have, the, Bristol Renaissance Fair near me that we go to, and they have a whole joust and fight to the death, that draws in the crowds. It's lots of fun to go watch. Yes, fight to the death, air quotes,

Sage Moreaux 30:43

We go to the local Renaissance fair, and I love the jousting. I love the horses. Oh, it's so enjoyable

Zinzi Brookbree 30:50

I would like you guys to talk about Tilmar and the moment, not just the moment of Everard going and intimidating him and then letting Maggie, you know, say, "Don't hurt him," and, that little good cop, bad cop moment, and he's

Katherine Suzette 31:05

him

Zinzi Brookbree 31:05

for playing into that." And Maggie's like, "Sure, I totally was doing that intentionally." but the moment in the basement where, Maggie asks for Tilmar to be one of hers and the plan that she enacts, right, the strategy of to send him to the Knights Redeemer tower and as an installed spy

Sage Moreaux 31:28

That was a very clever moment because I've been thinking about, and I think Maggie even talked, it might have been later in this chapter when she's talking to, to Everard they're like, "All the cards are on the table," and she's "So what's gonna happen is you're gonna get married and I'm gonna be standing there, and you're just gonna use me up until all of my knowledge is used up and I'm no longer useful to you, and then you'll discard me." and I was thinking like, yes, she has knowledge that is helping her make all of these choices, but she deciding to take this man and put him as a spy isn't something that happened in the books. This is her being clever, using her knowledge of the world that she's in and making these choices. So I do think that this is a early hint to like 'Cause eventually, if she is successful, things will change enough that she won't be able to predict stuff anymore, right? She does have inherent knowledge of how people think and connections that they don't know are gonna happen or potentialities, but at some point, if she is successful in twisting the timeline enough, which has been resisting her, she will become less powerful based off the book knowledge that she has. But she, her strategy here was really like a sign, a little hint that she could become a power player regardless of how much the story veers.

Katherine Suzette 32:49

Yeah I think this scene did a lot for connecting Maggie and Everard too So not only is she becoming a power player on her own by sending in her own spies and developing some of her own like vassal force or however that would be considered her own loyal knights But in the scene where Telmar asks Does this make me Black and Green now Like essentially does this make me a part of

Zinzi Brookbree 33:14

Yeah

Katherine Suzette 33:15

Am I in your care now If if I am loyal to Maggie if I do what Maggie says if Maggie pays me does this make me Black and Green the whole room

Zinzi Brookbree 33:26

Yep.

Katherine Suzette 33:26

for a moment and Everard's like Yeah I think it does And he stands up and Maggie stands up He brings Maggie up next to him not just anywhere in the room but next to him as if they are a a power couple together So this whole scene set up not just Maggie's future power but also her relationship with Everard and how they together are a power couple and how they together are going to protect those people underneath them

Zinzi Brookbree 33:55

Mm-hmm And it's also such a beautiful, right, like we get the conversation from Maggie looking at the contract that, Hreban had, was going to have Tilmar sign, and that it's a slave contract And it's absolutely the opposite of what an honorable,

Katherine Suzette 34:14

Yeah where there's

Zinzi Brookbree 34:14

the honorable version of that relationship is supposed to be. And then we get the scene where Tilmar is swearing his oath of allegiance to Everard, getting those both explained and shown to us in the same scene and, how low Hreban is and how high Everard is on, on a level of honorability. And, Everard has said, his promises are in stone, right? if he, if he makes an oath, if he makes a promise, that's, he will do every single thing within his power to keep that promise

Katherine Suzette 34:47

So Tilmar bowed his head I swear upon my life and the lives of all that I hold dear to pledge my blade my body and soul to the Lord of Selva His word is my law his cause is my cause and there are none above him So shall it be till the end of my days And then Everard says I Lord of Selva accept you into my service From this moment you are my sword and I am your shield Should you be wronged I will give you justice Should you fall in my service your loved ones will not know hunger Rise Tilmar of Selva and sheathe your blade until I have need of it

Zinzi Brookbree 35:21

that oath is still so cool, and to see that written out and, and get that scene, I really enjoyed that.

Katherine Suzette 35:30

Yeah Well and it was like what Five lines from Everard but in those five lines he's promising to care for him

Zinzi Brookbree 35:35

Yeah, changed his entire life, changed the, the life of every generation from his family going forward will now be, of Selva. Tilbar's also interesting in that, He gets a bad feeling, and I wanted to know more about this because it's mentioned a couple times he got a bad feeling, and then he ran away, before his his fellow mercenaries got picked up and tried at court, right? He looked at that contract and went, "I got a bad feeling," and he didn't sign it. There you know, he relies on his gut, and it's just, it's cool to see this character, who has that, and I will be interested to see if that turns out to be some sort of magic that he has, where just this gut feeling is kind of guiding and protecting him, and that led him here to working for Maggie and Everard. but also I look forward to seeing how his gut serves him when he is spying on the Knight Redeemers and how all that turns out

Katherine Suzette 36:37

Absolutely He does seem to have a really good instinct should he choose to listen to it and he was very clear like I chose to ignore my instinct which put me in this position But then when he saw who was there at the place that they were supposed to raid and murder everybody in he didn't go through with it and thank goodness.

Sage Moreaux 36:53

homework for the next episode is to read chapters 32 through 36,

Katherine Suzette 36:58

We'd love to hear your comments and your theories and your corrections Put them all in the comments wherever you are listening from because we actually do read all of those and it makes our hearts warm and happy when we have good engagement from you all So thank you to those who are engaging

Sage Moreaux 37:13

Outside of this podcast, you can find us at bookdragoninc.com, as well as our weekly Zoom write-ins with Write With Me, Zinzi Bree on Substack. We'd love for you to check those out. All of our links are in the show notes. also have our podcast newsletter on Substack as a way for you to help support us directly. Thank you to Rhea Nancoo for her continuing support, and we would love to see you join us over there.

Katherine Suzette 37:40

Thank you so much for tuning in As Maggie thinks to herself about Everard You arrogant ass As Maggie tells Everard You can turn that off now

Zinzi Brookbree 37:49

as Maggie thinks, "What's scarier than a rabbit honey badger in human form? A rabbit honey badger in human form who is your loyal cousin." Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next time

Sage Moreaux 38:03

Bye.

Katherine Suzette 38:04

Bye So if if if I Sorry cat almost rolled off of my lap Ow Sorry child Let me start over

Zinzi Brookbree 38:17

That is. It's in the, it's in the carriage, and we didn't talk about the carriage scene and the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um