Two Boots and a Sword - Chapters 15-17 This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me Read-along

This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me Read-Along: Two Boots and a Sword (Ch. 15–17)

In this Book Dragon Banter read-along episode, Zinzi Bree, Sage, and Katherine discuss chapters 15–17 of This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me by Ilona Andrews, shifting format to prioritize discussion over a detailed recap. They break down Maggie’s troupe’s tightly orchestrated gray iron barrel heist at the docks, including distractions, lighting, and Reynald’s strategic planning. The group unpacks Maggie’s reveal that Filderan intentionally set up 80 mercenaries to die, making the Magnars’ plan to kill him feel more justified, and they debate how fantasy makes protagonist violence palatable. The episode ends with predictions about upcoming plot turns and reading homework: chapters 18–22 only.

Arvel Artwork Credit: Helena Elias
Ilona Andrew's Blog Artwork Round Up here: https://ilona-andrews.com/blog/art-print-roundup/

Podcast links:
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Other links:
Book Dragon Ink Online Writing Retreats: https://www.bookdragoneditorial.com/ink-retreats
Write With Me, Zinzi Bree - Substack: https://writewithmezinzibree.substack.com/
Sage: https://readorbleed.substack.com/
Book Dragon Ink: https://www.bookdragoneditorial.com/

Our Summer Read-Along: This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me (Bookshop.org affiliate link): 
https://bookshop.org/p/books/this-kingdom-will-not-kill-me-ilona-andrews/f544c8f1dba95f55?ean=9781250377265&next=t&aid=124342&listref=book-dragon-book-club-reads

00:00 Cold Open Recap
00:18 Show Intro and Format
00:43 Sponsor and Spoiler Policy
01:31 Name Pronunciation Tangent
03:05 Key Moment The Heist
03:19 Heist Mechanics Breakdown
06:58 Lighting and Distraction Debate
09:32 Reynald the Strategist
11:03 Maggie Reveals Filderan Plot
12:51 Is Killing Filderan Justified
16:52 Yolenta Politics and Power
20:07 Trust Building and Payoff
25:19 Isekai Skills and Game Master
28:55 More Politics Hreban and Silverin
34:43 Notes and Secret Alliances
35:53 Reynald Jealousy Debate
38:29 Timeline and Striver Mystery
41:41 Authors Craft and Worldbuilding
44:52 Widower Flirting Theory
46:43 Rooftop Watch and Tea Talk
48:48 Sovaric Magic and Manipulation
54:20 Everard Coin and Predictions
58:07 Wrap Up and (BTS)

Transcript

Zinzi Brookbree 0:00

the heist is a success. Gray iron smuggling, Indora's been a bad girl, Filderan needs to die, and Reynald can smolder with the best of them. welcome. We see the assassins have failed. We are Book Dragon Banter, a podcast where three aspiring authors talk all things books. We're fantasy-focused, but not exclusive. Join Sage, Katherine, and me, I'm Zinzi Bree, as we read This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me by Ilona Andrews, all for the love of story. This is a read-along mini season where we'll be covering a section of chapters each episode. Read or reread along with us. We're so glad you're here. And now's a great time to hit that subscribe button

Katherine Suzette 0:43

We'll be keeping spoilers out of the read-along episodes, as we're saving them for our mini-season wrap-up pajama party. I am so looking forward to that. Zinzi is also testing Sage and I's self-control with this to not read ahead. I cannot say that I am the best at this. I have poor self-control. But moving on, we are an explicit podcast, so we can give our honest and unfiltered opinions. So be warned,

Zinzi Brookbree 1:07

This mini season is sponsored by Book Dragon Ink our company where we host themed monthly writing retreats online with workshops, access to our book coaches, Sage and Katherine, as well as have writing sprints and a fabulous community. You can check out our upcoming retreats with the link in the show notes.

Katherine Suzette 1:23

In this episode, we are changing our format just a little bit and dropping the detailed summary in favor of more time for discussion. Let's get into it

Zinzi Brookbree 1:31

but first of all, I have to say, uh, yes, Evilducks3710, I know it is "shay-na" I am shamed. I keep calling her Sharna. I'm currently editing an episode, the second episode after I got the correction, and I'm still calling her Sharna in the episode even though I know you are correct, it is Shana. And now I don't know if I should, like, dub over my own voice going, "Shaina" every time I say Sharna,

Katherine Suzette 2:01

No

Zinzi Brookbree 2:02

Or I just go, "Hey, here's my correction clip recorded in the future to be included in an episode we recorded in the past. Ta-da."

Sage Moreaux 2:13

I'm impressed you remember her name at all, 'cause I'm terrible at remembering character names. And you were I was like, "Wait, I think I know who you're talking about." Yes, I was right

Zinzi Brookbree 2:22

Gort's, Gort's wife, Mar- uh, I was about to call her Marna. Nope. Sh- I still wanna call her Sharna. It's just in my brain as Sharna, and I wanna blame the audiobook, but in the audiobook, it's correct. It is Shana. But that's just what my brain has decided her name is. I will attempt to be correct in the future. But as our track record shows between, um, Solentine Crackers and Habanero Hebron, names are not our thing. I'm still questioning if we're saying Ilona Andrews, Ilona Andrew, like, if we're getting the author's name correct, and we even tried to research that. So please be kind with us. We're trying. Ilona, Ilona. Ilona

Katherine Suzette 3:04

we got this.

Zinzi Brookbree 3:05

All right, so onto our key moments. Key moment number one, save the mercenaries. What did you guys think of the heist that our crew pulled off? I feel like they should have... Their, their group should have a name. so let's just call it Maggie's troupe, so chapter 15, our, Maggie's troupe is doing the heist. We've got Will who is working the docks. We have, Reynald hiding in the shadows of an alley. Gort is hiding in the shadows of a different alley. Kaiden and Clover are waiting for the signal, as well as Shana and Maggie are up on the, the battlements, the bluffs, the... I forget specifically where they are, but they're up somewhere high with a lantern waiting for Will to get to the middle barrels that have, a little symbol on it that he's supposed to find by feeling it. and then he stumbles to signal Maggie and Shana that he has indeed found a barrel, that has this little symbol on it that they're looking for. Maggie raises the lantern to flag, the rest of the team and set things in motion. Kaiden runs with something that he's pretend stolen from Clover. Clover screams, and of course, pretty girl, pretty girl's screaming. A bunch of young men are going, "Oh, help the pretty girl. She's screaming. What do we need to do? Oh, there's a thief running," right? It sets into motion this whole, distraction setup, so in the background, Will and Lute, who is prepared with a backup barrel on a little trolley and a tarp, can swap out one of these barrels and replace it with one that Maggie previously purchased and add that into the line, while this other event with Kaiden and Clover is keeping everyone else distracted, and then Lute walks away with this stolen barrel and heads over to where Gort is and meets up with him. Kaiden throws the gorefish blubber that he apparently stole into one of the f- like fire barrel lampposts and sets fire to the dock, at least a little bit, which is a much larger distraction before he runs off down the alleyway that Reynald is hiding in, and when someone goes after him, the person who goes after Kaiden backs out of the alley, presumably having met Reynald and went, "I'm gonna back off. I don't want any part of this." and everyone gets away clean. For you guys, I remember the first time that I read this, and I don't think I had, I don't think I was reading the text. I think I was listening to it at the time, so like the actual mechanics of what happened in this scene totally went over my head, and it was just a blur. I was like, "I don't know. Somehow they got the barrel. Something happened. There was a distraction. I was distracted by the distraction. Good job on them for succeeding," right? What was it like for you guys?

Katherine Suzette 5:57

I read it a couple of times, uh, via audio, and I will say that the first time it was a blur for me as well the audio, upon the reread, I really enjoyed kind of following the movements and seeing how they did it, as opposed to just kind of being surprised by the distractions and then, like, the result of the heist. I actually enjoyed getting to see how they managed to pull it off

Sage Moreaux 6:20

It's a pretty short, it's like I was just looking back at it and it's like two pages of text for the entire thing to happen. There's a little bit of build up at the beginning. I mean, the section is maybe four ch- pages all together, Mm. three. But like a little bit of build up before they actually make the signal and start, then it's just like bam, bam, bam, and it happens super fast. I feel like I basically got it time, but since I'm reading on paper, I often will go back and reread a section to see if like, wait, what happened and, and track it. the only thing that bothered me, I th- I, you know, I was engaging. I like action sequences. it's 4:00 AM. talking about how the city shr- was shrouded in darkness, although That this section was brightly lit. But I just felt like the fact that they all helped out Clover because she was pretty is maybe hard to see in the, in the relative dimness. And I felt like I would like them to like rush over because someone was yelling anyways, but maybe that wouldn't be the case.

Katherine Suzette 7:20

Yeah. Did it actually say?

Sage Moreaux 7:22

Yeah, like Pretty Girl. Like,

Katherine Suzette 7:23

filtered through

Sage Moreaux 7:24

like that in it

Katherine Suzette 7:25

so I guess, like, that's Maggie saying the pretty girl.

Zinzi Brookbree 7:28

That was part of the assumption? Yeah

Katherine Suzette 7:30

Whether or not the guys could see it, I suppose, doesn't matter so much as Maggie knowing that, that that is what's happening

Sage Moreaux 7:36

it says "the dock workers, overwhelmingly male and young, saw a pretty girl yelling for help and did exactly what Reynold expected them to do. They stopped and moved to the right, trying to block the thief from escaping." And, I guess maybe that's like they could tell that she was young, maybe, you know... Is she blonde? I think of her as blonde. So, like, they could see her, like, shiny hair, and she's young, and that's enough. Um, you don't have to maybe notice details of the face or whatever

Zinzi Brookbree 8:03

and, and dressed well enough, right, as a lady's maid that she's not, you know, she's not someone who just looks like they're off of the street.

Sage Moreaux 8:09

I

Zinzi Brookbree 8:10

like this is- Yeah this is Reynald's strategy. This is a scenario that he came up with and devised- Right and went, "Hey, I know what's gonna happen here. Let's do it this way." Right? 'Cause I don't know if they had replaced Shana with Clover if it would have been as effective

Sage Moreaux 8:28

Hmm. They would have just kept working and gone about their business, which is very much a possibility.

Zinzi Brookbree 8:34

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux 8:34

pass. But I was just like, really? It says it's dark. Okay, I guess it's bright enough because maybe, and I'm also thinking of you know, fire light in our world opposed to this, you know, they have different kinds of oils and different kind of lighting and everything, so. And also none of them are used to electric light, so maybe it really was bright enough to tell

Zinzi Brookbree 8:55

it starts out with the, it's these, these barrels that have a fire in them that's got a, like a, a polished metal that is reflecting light into the area, and then there's dark sections in between, and that dark section in between, like they waited for the specific timing so that Lute and Will are in one of those darker patches when they're making the barrel switch. So there is, you know, they're playing with the lighting here to a certain degree, and I would give Clover the credit where she, if she stopped walking or stopped chasing, that she would put herself in a lit area to keep eyes on her, right?

Sage Moreaux 9:31

Yeah, good call. it did, it was, like, very well organized of a h- of a little heist scenario.

Katherine Suzette 9:39

Yeah

Zinzi Brookbree 9:39

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 9:40

it was, like, dialed in to a T. Nothing went wrong. It all came out perfectly, and it just reinforced to me how smart Reynold is and how that's almost surprising because often the kind of like s- that he's silent, but he kind of gives a little bit of the strong and silent type, isn't also the cunning one in a kind of, romance hero character. Um, they're known for

Zinzi Brookbree 10:06

also

Sage Moreaux 10:07

and their, commitment to you, but not necessarily for being very strategic. So I appreciated that, and I liked that a lot

Zinzi Brookbree 10:14

I also like that they mention he made, Kaiden practice for two days to be able to throw, reliably throw the gorefish oil into the barrel, right? Like, it wasn't just, "Oh, this is what we're gonna do, and you don't have to work at it or anything. It's just gonna happen." Like, no, we're gonna run the scenario, we're gonna practice it, we're gonna make sure that this can go off as, given any plan has the potential to go wrong, but let's, minimize that as much as possible So the heist is successful. Will still has to finish out his workday. So, and they choose to wait for him. Everybody goes home, they rest, they go about other things, and they gather again at dinnertime when he returns to then go into what was all this for, right? They, at this point in the story, the Magnars in particular, They know something about Maggie's abilities, but they really haven't seen, like, the proof of it. They haven't had a, a, a shocking reveal in the same way that, Kaiden and Clover and Reynald had some, right? Like, where she's just explaining things that she has no business knowing otherwise. We even had a scene earlier where, Shana is asking Maggie, you know, "Gort's hiding something from me, but I don't know what it is." And Maggie hedges and doesn't answer her right then because she's saving it for this moment, where she goes, "Hey, you went to Filderan. You were gonna take this job, and this is what would have happened if you were gonna take this job. You were gonna be one of these 80 mercenaries who was gonna get thrown at a fort and look like you're bandits, and you were gonna get executed as a bandit because of a bad deal that Filderan has made." and then Filderan the asshole is going to profit from all of these mercenaries' deaths, buy a winery, make a wine, and name the wine Falcon's Tears, like after... He's naming the wine after the tears that he created by letting these men die.

Katherine Suzette 12:22

Yeah, so it's like less of a

Zinzi Brookbree 12:23

Asshat.

Katherine Suzette 12:24

and more like an intentionally, manipulative death-causing deal. Like, he did it on purpose,

Zinzi Brookbree 12:32

I don't...

Katherine Suzette 12:33

accident, right?

Zinzi Brookbree 12:34

Yes, Filderan 100% knows what is coming for these men when he's sending them out, having them, not giving them any colors, having them all bring their own gear, and he's setting them up to look like bandits. He knows exactly what's gonna happen to them

Sage Moreaux 12:51

So I have a question for you guys. Do you think the

Zinzi Brookbree 12:54

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 12:54

chose to do, to make it clear what a awful person he is to make outcome of what happens to him, I think it happens, I mean, I haven't read ahead, they send Gort and his family to kill him, right? Um, and, and presumably that, I mean, it seems like that that's what's happened. They don't go into detail about it. But do you think that they set up what a terrible person he is so that it's okay for Gort and Shana and the boys to go kill him w- and for Maggie to, like, sign off on that without us having a negative feeling about our, you know, found family here? So maybe this is, like, a general question about not this specific situation, but do you feel like, as a reader, do you Are you easier to condone murder when it's clear that the person is so evil, right? So this guy is so evil, he's heartless, and it's illustrated in all these different ways, and so therefore we're not so upset when the Aight plan is to just get rid of him, regardless if event happens or not

Zinzi Brookbree 14:02

yes, absolutely how he is painted here makes it more palatable for us to just sign off on, okay, the Magnars are gonna go kill him. they stand up, they're smiling, not in, a happy smile, but a grim smile. here's an opportunity for them to get a little bit of revenge for any of the bad deals that they've been sent on as mercenaries over the past. I mean, Will and, Lute, even their, the past job that they held before coming to, work for Maggie, they hadn't been quite blacklisted, but they were already in trouble with other brokers because of a job that had gone wrong, where they turned around and then attacked the person who had hired them. So we've already seen that they've got a history of, like, there's a desire for some levels of justice. It's not just about getting paid for them

Sage Moreaux 14:52

And I think this is it, the reason I brought it up is because I feel like in fantasy that has a lot of violence in it, this is one of those fine lines that the author has to walk where there's violence and your protagonist is probably going to be committing acts of violence, if not themselves, through their agents, right? So far, I mean, Maggie has committed murder already in this book, in self-defense, right? But, like, at what point

Zinzi Brookbree 15:16

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 15:16

do you, how do you as an author create a character that can have this kind of violent lifestyle because of the setting, and make it palatable to readers? And different readers have different levels of where their line is of, like, no, ev- never. just think, I think that's an interesting thing of, like, how do you keep the, how do you keep the charm for these different characters when they're going out and also committing these gruesome acts of Like, protecting children is one thing. Now we're protecting 80 mercenaries who we've never met. They're not on the page. Gort is a representation of them, so we get a

Zinzi Brookbree 15:55

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 15:55

of it from that, right?

Zinzi Brookbree 15:57

And we also get, because Maggie lists out, these are all mercenaries that potentially have families, that there's, these are all fathers or brothers or uncles that, you know, there's some... She even shares, later when she's up on the battlement with Reynald, part of her own reasoning for choosing to save the mercenaries the way that she does, is that she remembers being a child and her father being in the military and wondering if he's gonna come home, and to her, that's the same as these mercenaries, even though Reynald does tell her a little bit that it's not exactly the same because the mercenaries are choosing the job, they are choosing the higher coin that you get with being a mercenary when they have the opportunity to choose other jobs, right? Like, Will could just become a dock worker. It doesn't pay as much, but that is an option available to him I do appreciate that it is complex and I would love to come back to this conversation after a point in the future. so hopefully we'll get to discuss that too. moving on to the whole point of the mercenaries, right? This power struggle between, Drent-, Drentia? Drentia? I'm gonna screw up her name. and her niece, Indora right? Drentia's currently the head of the Yolenta family, and Indora is the niece, her, Drentia's brother's daughter, and she is impatient and wants to move into power, 'cause she knows if Drentia gets booted from her seat as head of the family, her father still doesn't care about money, he just wants to do his smithing and work with metal, and then she then gets to make the decisions for the household as far as where the money goes and where the weapons go, right? there's this whole power play between these two powerful women happening, and that's what would have cost these 80 mercenaries their lives. What did you guys think of, this whole, this setup there's a whole lot of working parts that are happening in this scene and in this explanation, and a whole lot of politics. Did you find it interesting? do you feel like it could have been, maybe there was something simpler that could have been done here, or did you feel like, this is more complex and that's smart on the part of the writers?

Katherine Suzette 18:08

Oh, I feel both. probably because I know that with these authors' skill, the information, whatever information is in there, is going to be relevant and useful to readers to know later on. But I did tune some of that out, especially on the first read through, 'cause I was like, "Oh, politics, politics, politics, maneuvers, whatever." Essentially bad guy, bad guy, deal, person in the crossfire gets killed. Oh, but now they know the plan, so they get to rebel, go kill them instead, plan kaput. like, "Okay, I got it. I got the basics." But I do know that as, as we move on, this knowledge will probably become important, like the names of these characters and their roles in this society, their magical gifts or their, their levels of, political power and influence, that kind of thing. It will be relevant.

Zinzi Brookbree 19:03

did you focus back in, when Reynald, puts his hands on the table and leans forward towards Maggie and is like, "Also, I think you are amazing"?

Katherine Suzette 19:10

Actually, no.

Zinzi Brookbree 19:11

Was that the like... That, that's what you're listening for? No. Okay.

Katherine Suzette 19:15

I, I think I must have been

Zinzi Brookbree 19:16

You just tuned out this whole chapter?

Katherine Suzette 19:18

I probably listened to it, like, three times. And, like, the, this particular section of the book, I would say, like, I retained the least amount of detail for these chapters. So even with Reynold's, like, teasing and, and flirting, essentially, I, I took note that it happened. But no, I did not remember, like, this hovering moment at all. I was like... Actually, I was reading your notes in the page, and I was like, "Oh, wait. Yeah that did happen. Oh, wait, that did ha- I listened to this, right?"

Zinzi Brookbree 19:49

Yeah

Katherine Suzette 19:50

like, I totally did, but

Sage Moreaux 19:53

Hmm,

Katherine Suzette 19:53

it was a little in one ear and out the other.

Zinzi Brookbree 19:55

I mean, I will admit the first time around this section, part two, even when I talked about it after, I was like, "The book happens in three sections." And then I was looking at, oh wait, no, it happens in four. So my brain had basically deleted this, and I think part of it is because, the whole purpose of this section is to prove Maggie's ability to prove her knowledge is true, and at this point in the story, we've already bought into that.

Katherine Suzette 20:21

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 20:22

She's just gotta prove it to the characters now. And like, so that's... It's not as exciting for us necessarily, because it doesn't feel as relevant or as new, right? we're not questioning is what she thinks is gonna be true. She's still questioning, because she's going, "I have these inconsistencies. Is that barrel actually gonna have the gray iron that it thinks it does? Is the knowledge that I have really as valuable as all this time I've been playing it off? Maybe- maybe this time I'll be wrong." Right? So like, she's sitting there sweating bullets over this whole thing, and even thought about, like, "If I check the barrel ahead of time so that I know, and can... Oh, but no, I won't, because I need the power to be that I didn't check it, the seal is on there. This is gonna be a big reveal because I need all of these people in the room, when I say this is what's gonna happen, I need them to believe me. I need them to trust me, and when I say, 'This is what you should do about it,' they need to follow orders." do you feel like all of this culminated successfully in, Reynald, Shana, Gort, and Will and Lute, all fully buying in, okay, Maggie knows her stuff, right? Like, is... 'Cause that's the purpose of the scene. was it successful?

Katherine Suzette 21:39

well, we needed a team building exercise, number one, and a trust building exercise, and then also sending the Magnars off after this Filderon, whatever, bad guy, to murder him seems relevant too because they, they're mercenaries, they've gotta blow off some steam, they've gotta be active somehow so that it seems relevant for m- team management also to have given, to have allowed them that task. it, so yes, I do believe it was completely relevant and I think it was well done and all of that.

Zinzi Brookbree 22:12

To me, this section was the least exciting part of the book. So if, like, this is still good even though it's the least exciting, like, that means everything else is, coming after this is better, in my opinion.

Katherine Suzette 22:22

like the right s- set- stage setting for a whole lot of action right after this. Like, we needed this information for all of the action that I assume is about to come

Zinzi Brookbree 22:30

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 22:31

the action sequence of the rescuing of the children and the murder of all of the, slavers much more exciting than this, like, highly orchestrated,

Zinzi Brookbree 22:43

Heist, yeah

Sage Moreaux 22:44

And then every time it goes into some, like, Maggie explaining backstory or Maggie thinking about backstory, I do get pulled out a little bit, and it is hard 'cause I do feel like I know it's important, I wanna get it, and I wanna know, and

Zinzi Brookbree 23:01

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 23:01

This one was one of the harder sections for me 'cause it's long, and it's exceptionally detailed. Usually it's, like, a lot of different characters being mentioned or a lot of different things being mentioned in a very short period of time, and this was very much about these iron, the Keepers of the Iron in a, like, six

Zinzi Brookbree 23:21

Yolenta family.

Sage Moreaux 23:22

Yeah.

Zinzi Brookbree 23:23

Mm-hmm

Sage Moreaux 23:24

I was really interested from, like, a world-building perspective of the different kinds of iron. That got me excited about it. The action in the middle of the barrel being smashed open and how that was described, that got me hooked back in. You know, Reynold and Clover being impressed by Maggie and, like, sweetly telling her was lovely little way to wrap it up at the end. But it makes me wonder how much, How much is all of this detail? I'm sure it will play back later, but h- like for the amount of page time it spent on it, how much will it play later on in the story versus it needing in this moment?

Katherine Suzette 24:03

What's the payoff?

Sage Moreaux 24:04

was a

Zinzi Brookbree 24:05

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux 24:05

Yeah. it wa- it was, again, I like read through it. I did have to kinda go back and reread a few sections to be like, "Wait, what's happening? How does..." 'Cause I it- it's also very clever, right? They're being, they are making a very s- they s- that Zinzi had mentioned in one of our last episodes that the authors really wanted to write a character that was smarter than they are, I think they've succe- I mean I don't know how smart they are. but they have succeeded in writing a very intelligent character and a very smart plot, and I think that this is an example of the amount of politics and shenanigans that are going on that she is aware of. And so it did, it was very like thoughtfully laid out and everything, and there was a lot going on, and I needed to kinda like reread it a couple a times to fully get all the intricacies of the plot

Katherine Suzette 24:57

Yeah, me of, like, the chessboard kind of example, in the laying of the chessboard, we do also, like you just said, we get to see all of that cleverness and how much information Maggie retained from her reads of the book, and potentially some things that she was imbued with upon arrival into this world that she definitely did not have before. I remember the scripting, the writing,

Zinzi Brookbree 25:21

So at the beginning of chapter six, Maggie's practicing her writing, and she realizes that she can write not only Rellasian, but also in the Shear's cipher

Katherine Suzette 25:31

Yeah, which is awesome. I love that. I would love to like, enter a different country or a different world and automatically be able to understand and speak the language like a native, and then write in it like a native. And then also to understand ciphers for political interests. And this in the isekai world reminds me a little bit of sometimes when the isekai players are totally aware of what's happening and they are like active players, and then there's like a game master for this isekai, story, and they're, they, they're trying to manipulate the human who was dropped into this other world as if they are a character, an actual

Zinzi Brookbree 26:09

Hi.

Katherine Suzette 26:09

character in a game. and then like the character starts going head-to-head with the, the game master kind of a thing. So it kinda made me think like maybe they were given these skills as if they are a player in a game as well

Sage Moreaux 26:27

That's what's happening then, right? So who's the game master?

Katherine Suzette 26:30

I don't know.

Sage Moreaux 26:31

Theories

Katherine Suzette 26:32

be the author

Sage Moreaux 26:34

possibly. Or Reynold

Katherine Suzette 26:36

Or the golden-eyed man is the game master and the author is traveling through multiple different characters' bodies, and he is currently in Reynald. Or like Zinzi said, it's the son sees all the things kind of in that moment. no, Sage said

Sage Moreaux 26:54

That's what I said,

Zinzi Brookbree 26:55

S- Sage said that, yeah.

Katherine Suzette 26:56

that was

Sage Moreaux 26:56

cause she already

Zinzi Brookbree 26:57

I can't.

Katherine Suzette 26:57

position. I liked that idea

Sage Moreaux 27:01

So one of the things I was thinking about is how other than Maggie being brought into this world and having this knowledge and this ability to, like, and everything, right? There's not a lot of magic that is happening with her. There is magic that we know of that some of these families have, but we haven't really witnessed any of it, but it's talked about, and I love, you know, I love all the magic stuff. So there was the description of the different kinds, and I guess it was my favorite chapter of this section, which is where they are sitting on the roof drinking the tea.

Zinzi Brookbree 27:32

Yeah, it's in chapter 17 at the end of it, and they're having a conversation, and Maggie asks Reynald about, if he's seen the four military families, right? 'Cause there's eight great families, and four of them have, military-used gifts, and so then there's this conversation that happens around what each of those look like

Sage Moreaux 27:52

Yes, and I loved that part, and I loved, first of all, so it describes them, and a few of them she's like, "Yeah, I don't actually need to see that." Even when I was just a fan i- on Earth reading these books, I was like, "Ooh, I would love to see that," and now she's like, Yeah, no thanks." then as we, as Arvel is, talked about for the second time, and then, so I am much more of a Shadow Daddy person generally than the Golden Shining Boy, but I loved the description of him and of his golden magic. And the kind of like golden light shining out of the eyes and surrounding the body, like I, I found that to be a very engaging description, and made me definitely like can't wait for more magic.

Zinzi Brookbree 28:34

he looks like a saint.

Sage Moreaux 28:36

Ready.

Katherine Suzette 28:36

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 28:37

I'm

Zinzi Brookbree 28:37

this is a

Sage Moreaux 28:38

stuff to come into play a little bit more

Zinzi Brookbree 28:40

We haven't met him yet, but there is character art of Arval, and maybe, maybe I will pop that in, like, right here so you can see his, his, his appearance

Sage Moreaux 28:51

I'm sorry, that was off track,

Zinzi Brookbree 28:51

part of the reason I was like, "We're just doing these three chapters," is 'cause there's so much that happens here. There's a bunch with the politics with the Yolenta family, and learning how, how much power Sauven, King Sauven has over the other families in that, if her, what she's doing, skimming off the top, taking the, the gray iron which is used to make weapons, right? that's just immediate treason, immediate execution. that's the result if she, if Drienta gets caught with this. it talks about who, who can and who can't be bought off. if someone is more afraid of getting caught by the, more afraid of the king than, having the desire for enough money to keep quiet about what's happening, right? Like, there's some of that stuff going on with the politics. There's, Maggie and Reynald having conversations around, this power versus knowledge, right? And, like, all the different opportunities or different ways that Maggie could have reported the Yolenta family and this infighting and how it's treason. but that she chose a way that saved the 80 mercenaries, that that was her priority. And she makes a comment where it wasn't the fact that she was right about the gray iron in the salt barrel, it was the fact that she chose to save the mercenaries that earned Reynald's trust, and then earn- you know, that made him double down on his promises of protection and saying, you know, "I'm in this with you all the way to the end of whatever this war is gonna be that we're gonna have to, follow through on to keep Herban out of power." Habanero, Hubris, Herbert, whatever his name is right?

Sage Moreaux 30:36

Ray- Ray-Ban.

Zinzi Brookbree 30:37

Herbert Hraban.

Katherine Suzette 30:40

Okay.

Zinzi Brookbree 30:40

In the audiobook, it's, it's,

Katherine Suzette 30:42

Ban

Zinzi Brookbree 30:43

but there's just, like, a little bit of, like, throat phlegm that goes into his name, and that's why I keep screwing it up. Because, like, I'm good with accents, and I wanna be good at saying his name, and it just, it's a sound that apparently my mouth doesn't wanna make.

Katherine Suzette 30:55

Only good at accents inside of my head

Sage Moreaux 30:57

And then what about Silver- Silv- Sylvren?

Zinzi Brookbree 31:00

Silverin, yeah, there's a whole discussion here about Silverin and how strategic he is. the fact that he's, Reynald says that he was in a room with Silverin where he formulated a plan in his own head, and then talked to the other commanders and nudged them into believing that the ideas were their own, when they came up with this plan of attack, right? how terrifying is that on the level of strategery and human manipulation that he has to be at to successfully do that, and to have, his rise within the Knights of the Redeemer, 'Cause we also get his story, as far as Maggie knows it from the books, of, how he grew up and that he was part of a campaign that burned down an entire village that, or a whole town, and that he was so broken up about it that he left the military, and signed up for the Orders of the Knight Redeemers, and then rose in power within five years to be the head of it, right? I think it says, like, he's 31 or something, so to be in power of that branch of, not military, but th- this knight order, in that short amount of time, all of the strategy that goes into that and to yet still be under the radar is pretty terrifying

Sage Moreaux 32:25

Is this the first we've heard of him? in this section

Zinzi Brookbree 32:28

It's not the first time his name has been mentioned, but it is the first time we've gotten, a good chunk of detail about him

Sage Moreaux 32:35

Okay. 'Cause I feel like other characters, though we haven't met them yet, have really, like, stood out in my head, and when I read his name, I was like, "Oh, yeah." And then I was like, I actually have a, I don't know who he is. I know n- I, like, I can't, like, imagine anything in my mind, whereas the Sleepless Duke and Ryban, I mean, Ryban, Ray-ban, we met him in,

Zinzi Brookbree 32:56

Re- ribeye and habanero. Yep

Sage Moreaux 32:58

Ryban. Yeah. We met him in the garden, so maybe that's why.

Zinzi Brookbree 33:01

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 33:02

Silverin has yet to be on page, to my knowledge. but the fact also that he is teamed up, if he's this clever and he's teamed up with Ryban, like, or Ryban,

Zinzi Brookbree 33:12

Oh, you got it.

Sage Moreaux 33:13

scary too, right?

Zinzi Brookbree 33:14

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux 33:15

I haven't

Zinzi Brookbree 33:15

Maggie also says that, publicly they're supporting Hreban and, are doing things above board, but then privately Silveren does stuff that would turn Reynald's hair white. so what twisted things are happening in the dark that even, Maggie knows about and we have yet to learn as the reader

Katherine Suzette 33:34

Yeah, and again, it

Sage Moreaux 33:35

Now wait

Katherine Suzette 33:36

about, like, her favorite book series, just how dark are the books that she read about Kair Toren

Sage Moreaux 33:42

And I love, one of my favorite lines was at the end of chapter 16, and it was when she was thinking about Silverin and it says that there are some revelations that would make things crucial and relevant, and one of them could have related to Silverin, and without the final book, she'll never make the connection no matter how many times she'd reread, which kind of feels

Zinzi Brookbree 34:02

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux 34:03

and maybe all of us, 'cause we've only read book one, right? Or Zinzi's read book one and we're reading book one. no matter how many times we read book one, until we've read the entire series, we won't actually know the details. But my favorite line is, "The lack of the third book was so fucking frustrating," because I feel like I've been there with book series, and I was just really feeling

Zinzi Brookbree 34:22

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 34:22

And this is, like, for me, the lack of a book series being finished is, like, you know, doesn't have a deep impact on my personal life in any kind of way other j- than just as a, like, frustrated reader. But for her, it, like, could mean life or death for her and all these other people in the world. So really fucking frustrating

Zinzi Brookbree 34:43

I want to talk over some other things that happened in, I think it was chapter 16. go back here and look at my notes. So we also get a little bit more on, the relationship between Solentine and the Shears and Everard, the, the Duke of Selva, right? And that they're working together, albeit kind of secretly. so it starts with Maggie giving Reynald a note about, something in Solentine's past that he regrets, and she tells Reynald that, If you ever need to pressure- If I've gone missing, if something happens to me, and you ever need to pressure him about something, here's information to do it, right? the level of trust that's been established, it's just like, "Here, here's how to threaten one of mo- one of the most deadly people in the kingdom. Just here's, here's the information for free," right? We've earned this amount of, this level of trust. And then she gives him a second note in the Shear's cipher that is a warning for Solentine, so he doesn't get stabbed in a carriage with a, the equivalent of, a mob boss, right? Reynald takes that one, and okay, now Reynald knows that she knows the Shear's cipher, 'cause she explains that, and he also goes, "Wait, do you have feelings for Solentine? You're trying to warn him. You care about him." did, to you guys, did that trigger some jealousy there, that he was concerned? Yeah, of just like, "Oh, wait, is Solentine a problem?

Katherine Suzette 36:13

Well, especially since she, like, him into her room. Like, I'm not sure if Reynold is, like, entirely clear as to whether or not Maggie left her window open on purpose for Solentine not, and there was- we had this whole discussion the other day about, leaving it open and Reynold being upset and potentially having those first little bits of jealousy.

Zinzi Brookbree 36:33

Ah.

Katherine Suzette 36:33

of this, I'm kind of thinking Reynold might be like, "Did she do it on purpose? Is there a thing here? Am I missing key elements?"

Zinzi Brookbree 36:40

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette 36:40

that is, like, personal protection, and he's actually trying to manipulate Maggie by flirting with her so that, you know, she thinks he's in trust and team with her. but he's, like, protecting his ass and his assets by being aware of her personal

Zinzi Brookbree 37:01

yeah, cause Maggie, Maggie is the way that he's gonna be able to rescue his son Matheo, from the, the Knights of the Redeemer, from, Silverins. There are too many characters whose names start with S's, between Solintine, Silverin, and the Severics, Sovon the Sever- Sauven Severic, which is the king, right? Like, that's three characters that all start with S's, and it's really... And they're all in power in different ways. that's a little annoying.

Sage Moreaux 37:28

I thought Reynold felt jealous, but also he's pretty strategic it seems like. And if Maggie does have a connection with Solentine that's a piece of information that's vital to know in trying to protect deal, right? And if all of a sudden she's gonna be running off with the shears and having some side dealings, he

Zinzi Brookbree 37:51

That's a direct threat to her safety. Yeah

Katherine Suzette 37:54

To

Sage Moreaux 37:54

Right, and he needs to be able to, like, have that knowledge so he can pivot on it. So he could be jealous, he could be wary, or he could be a combination is probably what I think

Zinzi Brookbree 38:04

he is a character that likes to be in control, and Maggie getting involved with the shears makes it harder for him to keep control

Katherine Suzette 38:13

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux 38:15

I really liked that he asked permission to read the note when she gave it to him and he asked. I was like, that is a nice touch on character.

Zinzi Brookbree 38:24

Green flag.

Katherine Suzette 38:25

Yes.

Sage Moreaux 38:26

Exactly. Green flag

Zinzi Brookbree 38:28

Green flag

Katherine Suzette 38:28

characters

Sage Moreaux 38:29

So Maggie dropped into this world. It, we do know that the book started with Reynald coming back and finding out that his wife and son were murdered, right? Or wife was murdered and son was Kidnapped, or whatever So Maggie got dropped basically into this book series a couple months into the start of book one, and I

Zinzi Brookbree 38:50

No. So clarification.

Sage Moreaux 38:52

No?

Zinzi Brookbree 38:53

for clarity that I am aware of without spoilers, Maggie arrives the day that she knows the book starts. even that opening where she's holding the rock is three days into her story, and then we get the three days backstory of this is what happens. So for Reynald, we don't know because we haven't actually read the text, right? What information of the past is his backstory, and what information is as close to her present, before them actually meeting at the tea house? That timeline is unclear. is that kind of fair to say?

Sage Moreaux 39:41

Sure. Without a reread, yes

Zinzi Brookbree 39:44

Okay.

Sage Moreaux 39:46

I think it's more the question of, well then, how long has he known his wife was dead? she died months

Zinzi Brookbree 39:51

Wow

Sage Moreaux 39:52

he just arriv- you know, got to the city, like, the same day that the book started, and that's the day Maggie arrived, and then they meet, like, basically seven days later or nine days, somewhere in there. Did he know, did he just find out his wife was dead, or had, had he found out earlier?

Katherine Suzette 40:08

Maybe not,

Sage Moreaux 40:09

Love to get into the nitty, though

Katherine Suzette 40:12

why we're here

Zinzi Brookbree 40:13

Maggie comments that, at the point that he's at the tea house, he had been observing the tea house trying to find a way in. That is stated in the scene that Maggie meets him All right. Sage, am I correct if you're finding this spot, or am I misremembering?

Sage Moreaux 40:29

Page 122, Was Striver supposed to be dead during this time? I didn't know." That was his horse. "The book started with Reynald riding on Striver into Cair Torryn, expecting a happy reunion, and instead finding out that his wife had died and his son had been kidnapped. Striver was in numerous flashbacks, but there was no mention of him in the main plot after that opening." So is this an inconsistency or I don't know

Katherine Suzette 40:56

it sounds like a key element if there's this much, like, little seeds planted that like me, I might, like, take note of, like, the bare essence of the detail, but I didn't consider it in that much It kinda sounds like something that's gonna come back the book, it's going to be relevant somehow, at least the horse part

Sage Moreaux 41:16

Just the whole time I've been so curious, like what were the original books like? like what kind of epic fantasy is this story reminiscent of? And so then hearing that there's different POV characters as opposed to the one that we're actually reading, This Kingdom Will Not Kill Me, and that it started, I found that interesting, really interesting that it started with Reynold. that's why I highlighted that piece.

Katherine Suzette 41:40

love,

Sage Moreaux 41:40

But yes

Katherine Suzette 41:41

I love all the detail that the Ilona Andrews pair must have had to put into both book that Maggie read as well as the book that we are reading. again, to reiterate a comment I made previously, but, some writers have to put a lot of thinking into their world-building and their books, and a lot of information gets put into a first draft or an outline or a directory, a book directory, that doesn't make it to the readers. of course, then we have fandoms and things erupt after certain books, and then they recreate using the tiny little seeds and threads they can find in that final product of a book. And, and I assume that a lot of the time, those threads are just... they may or may not be exactly what was in that original book directory that the authors created. But I love, again, just how much time and effort and energy and overwriting probably went into the first drafts of this book. And potentially, I wonder if, the authors even wrote, like, sections of the book that Maggie would have read so that they could, manage that style and things like that, and how Maggie perceived it and experienced it

Sage Moreaux 43:00

Yeah, two books in one. It's complex. It does make me curious about with the writing process for the authors, how much of outliners they are, how much they plan out way before they even start the drafting process, because there's so much in the world build and in the politics especially, like you were saying

Katherine Suzette 43:21

So clearly, I think that it's pretty clear that one of them is an over-writer. Like, in order to get all of these details on the page, it is my experience that authors who get that much on a page, they have overwritten to a large extent, and they've had to boil things down and essentially eliminate anything superfluous in those scenes. But also, I wonder if one of them is a planner and the other is, like, a exploratory drafter, and they somehow make their process work or, or whatnot

Zinzi Brookbree 43:52

So point of clarification, 'cause this might be my memory screwing with us, and I'm the person who's making the notes, right? in chapter six, when Maggie is sitting at the table with Reynald at the tea house, she tells him as she's, like, recounting his story, He searches for his son and finds out that he was taken and sold by a slave monger who lives in an impenetrable fortress. He keeps looking for a way in, but can't find any, so every day he comes to the rooftop terrace of the local tea house." So every day is not a specific length of time, so I don't know if I misremembered something and now have put months on or if it's literally he's just been doing this for the, what, like three or four days that it's been since, Maggie arrived in the world and since he walked in, which that would be, that it hasn't been that long since learning that his wife has died

Sage Moreaux 44:52

Just call it right now as a strained marriage. Maybe they were not a love match going into it and, you know,

Katherine Suzette 45:01

Maybe

Sage Moreaux 45:01

sometimes you stay married anyways. And yeah, like, I'm just gonna s- he doesn't seem too broken up about his wife dead and him only know, like, "Okay, this is Planter 15," and what did she arrive on? Like, Planter 6. It's been a week, man,

Zinzi Brookbree 45:18

No, she's been there since Planter third, is the...

Sage Moreaux 45:23

one, month of Lanter. Oh,

Zinzi Brookbree 45:24

book opens on day six, and it was three days earlier

Sage Moreaux 45:28

So basically, like, two weeks

Katherine Suzette 45:31

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 45:31

that he's learned since his wife has been dead.

Katherine Suzette 45:34

Yeah,

Sage Moreaux 45:35

saying.

Katherine Suzette 45:36

Okay,

Sage Moreaux 45:36

Might be a minor point. Again, hard to say, but I just... We were talking about it, And like, with the flirting, and like, is he?

Zinzi Brookbree 45:43

And now it triggered you?

Sage Moreaux 45:45

Yeah. well, I mean, that's okay. Like, maybe they didn't have a very great relationship, and, or maybe he's really good at compartmentalizing. I don't wanna say. But it does, it does add an element. Like, he's a widower, a widower, he doesn't talk about it. I guess he keeps things to himself

Katherine Suzette 46:06

I do wonder how much of his, like, military training and experience applies to how he is dealing with the deaths and the moving forward, I do wonder how much of his flirtation is actually manipulation in order for him to find his son as opposed to actual budding romance. Like, it could just be, like, the dangling fruit for the readers and for Maggie to be distracted from his ultimate goals

Sage Moreaux 46:33

He could also just be super charming and she just thinks it's flirting

Katherine Suzette 46:35

be that too

Zinzi Brookbree 46:37

That kind of, that kind of took over the conversation. So is there anything else we wanna go over

Katherine Suzette 46:41

I mean, maybe not in

Zinzi Brookbree 46:42

before we wrap up?

Katherine Suzette 46:43

but I did wanna go back to the scene where Maggie's on the roof because I think it's really relevant how protective Maggie became of this group quickly. And like, yeah, she did read the books and she had feelings for characters, but now that the characters are real people and she is kind of, so to speak, adopting them into her found family, and she is kind of taking on this key role of protector, with her knowledge and scheming, she goes out on the roof and is watching for the Magnars to return because she, she feels protective. And now, of course, she let them go and do that 'cause she is not also their mother and she does not make, she does not

Zinzi Brookbree 47:27

Yep

Katherine Suzette 47:27

or command their lives, and they've got to have some kinda outlet, like I said before. They've gotta have some kinda active outlet. But, I also pictured this as, like, this cute little widow's walk, and I know that, like, it's, it's supposed to be, like, a fortress and it's probably, like, not quite a widow's walk, but I was definitely picturing, like, this little porch-like section, widow's walk kind of vibe in which she is watching for the returning soldiers

Zinzi Brookbree 47:51

set up where, there's a tent, there's, a shade that's set up, and little, and chairs, and, here's a little outside porch, patio, go enjoy the sunshine, you know, more modern day,

Katherine Suzette 48:04

The vibe of that seems too cute and

Zinzi Brookbree 48:06

more

Katherine Suzette 48:06

Dagomar, Dagomir, Dagort,

Zinzi Brookbree 48:10

Darog? Well, he didn't set that stuff up. That stuff got, moved up there once they took residence

Sage Moreaux 48:15

Ah, it is lovely.

Katherine Suzette 48:17

I

Sage Moreaux 48:17

I love a rooftop garden, yeah,

Katherine Suzette 48:20

Putting it

Sage Moreaux 48:20

tea spot.

Zinzi Brookbree 48:21

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 48:22

their little tea cozy together conversation was lovely, and that actually worked a lot better for me in that chapter where they were talking through some of the backstory stuff or history of the world stuff, and I think it was because it was, like, more of a conversation than it was her, like, presenting her case,

Katherine Suzette 48:41

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 48:42

is what that scene with the iron and, and all of that information like. I did have a, a that I really liked that I wanted to quickly talk about. It's the end of chapter 17, and it's right when they

Zinzi Brookbree 48:56

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 48:56

about the magic, and they are talking about the king, right? Sauven

Zinzi Brookbree 49:03

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 49:03

So-

Zinzi Brookbree 49:05

Yep

Sage Moreaux 49:05

exultant call of the Soveric no cov- color," Reynold says. "You don't see it, yet you feel it. It reaches into you and envelopes your heart. You feel stronger, faster, more powerful, and you know you're not alone. Your friends are standing with you, and no enemy is great enough to bring you down. courage grows like a tree within you, unbreakable, and you run into battle, and even as you die, you still feel victorious." And Maggie's inner thought was, "Wow." I was thinking about, like, yes, wow, and also, like, that kind of is what community and found family is, and a a different kind of magic, and it really, like As I was reading it, I was like, oh, that describes how it feels to feel like you love this book so much and you're in the book. That's how it feels with the, like, coziness of the or even when it's not a cozy at all, but, like, that found family feeling when you have a, a real lovely community in real life, like that that makes you feel more powerful, feel more You don't feel alone. You, like, feel amazing. And

Zinzi Brookbree 50:11

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 50:11

is it that that is, like, the king's magic, and that family's magi- I know he's not the villain,

Zinzi Brookbree 50:18

Even though he sucks as a king,

Sage Moreaux 50:21

sucks. Exactly.

Zinzi Brookbree 50:22

but it is a really, like a really interesting ability

Sage Moreaux 50:26

Mm-hmm, and he's not the worst because Raybon is the worst, he is also not made out as this great guy, right? It's not about saving the king, Maggie's plot.

Zinzi Brookbree 50:36

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 50:36

But the fact that that is part of Like, to me, that's how I feel when I love a book so much, and that's the feeling I want my readers to feel when they read a book that I write.

Zinzi Brookbree 50:46

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 50:47

so it's cool that that It's like that related to me, like the magic of book and the magic of story is kind of the magic that she gave, that the authors gave this,

Zinzi Brookbree 50:56

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 50:57

this family, the Sovarics.

Katherine Suzette 50:59

Yeah, I think that was a

Sage Moreaux 51:00

I just, that was my favorite moment

Katherine Suzette 51:02

that's such a positive spin because for me, like, that is a really intelligent choice on the author's part because empowering a group of people can also be

Zinzi Brookbree 51:15

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette 51:15

great opening for manipulation. So I saw cult behavior. so, like, I saw the negative part of that. You saw the positive, and I was like, "Uh-oh," like we, we have set this up their emotions, their actions are manipulated a little bit because they feel empowered. And so that makes sense that this guy got, became the king, or that their family line did because of this power. Like, I would vote for somebody who made me feel empowered probably. But, if I truly felt empowered by a leader, I would want them to lead me and my people. so to me, like, I, I was almost the complete opposite. I was like, it's so intelligent because it is so manipulative

Sage Moreaux 51:58

I definitely wasn't thinking like in the book and in the story. It just immediately made me think like that's what this found- Like, I didn't think of it as like, that's amazing and so great for the king. I thought, wow, that is making me think about how

Katherine Suzette 52:17

Like what you get

Sage Moreaux 52:18

these different elements that story wants to give us make us feel. And so it's like a, like a parallel, not so much a subtext, more like a parallel, and I was really liking that. But you're right, that that is like all you have to do is cast that spell on everybody, and you could do whatever you want, and they're gonna like fall in line. Like, a- as you said, even as you die, you feel victorious. You've given your life for this, you don't regret it, right?

Zinzi Brookbree 52:46

There's something else I wanna connect here, We don't know when using the power, how much does Sovereign also feel that? Does he feel empowered? the way that it's listed for the other people who use their abilities, right? That, the rage glow affects boars and the people around him. the enduring flame used by Arvel, right, that grants him invulnerability and those close to him invulnerability. Does Savaric, when he uses this, does he also feel invulnerable? And then we got that scene back earlier, the story that, Reynald tells to Maggie and Clover and Kaiden about how Savaric felt invincible when he was young, and he went after the aunt of, the Duke of Selva and put his hands on her, and then it created this whole situation where there was then a duel, and Sauven got beat up, and that, is the root of his dislike for the Selva kingdom. Like, did his own magic infect him in a way that's kind of warped him over time to feel like he's untouchable, and, like, this little thorn is the, the Selva dukedom family is the only ones that's really proven him wrong

Katherine Suzette 54:01

I really liked that scene. I'm glad you brought it up because it made me like Everard more.

Zinzi Brookbree 54:06

Just to, like, see the kind of family history and that he showed up at the gates and did the eight-pointed star and was like, "Screw you," to the king, "I'm just like my father."

Katherine Suzette 54:16

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 54:16

I have a prediction of that.

Zinzi Brookbree 54:18

Yeah

Sage Moreaux 54:19

me of it. is, when Maggie is watching t- for the heist to go down, she rubs the, she rubs the coin that everard,

Zinzi Brookbree 54:30

Everard, Paducah Salva, no

Sage Moreaux 54:31

gave her at the beginning, and luck. And I was like, that is such a nice little way for the authors to remind us of this character and Maggie's connection to him that is presumably going to play out later. So my prediction is, this one prediction from that, is that there is definitely more in the wings with the two of them, Maggie and Everard.

Zinzi Brookbree 54:57

Hmm.

Sage Moreaux 54:57

that one meeting in the street is not gonna be the end of it. The question is, will he remember her or recognize My next prediction is pretty loose, but right at the end here she's thinking about how now a bunch of months nothing happens in the books, and like, feels like it's gonna be some downtime, and Reynald is like, "You can stop worrying now. You're a worrier. You can stop worrying now." And my prediction is, like, no, shit's about to hit the fan. We are at the, like, I think even maybe beyond, or very close to the middle mark.

Zinzi Brookbree 55:30

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux 55:30

But I really feel like we're on the verge of some really major stuff happening, so

Katherine Suzette 55:35

This is the lull

Sage Moreaux 55:36

I don't know what it is at all.

Zinzi Brookbree 55:38

can neither confirm nor deny

Katherine Suzette 55:40

Sure.

Sage Moreaux 55:41

I will think on it before our next episode, and if I do have, like, a major prediction, then I will record a, a little clip about it. But at this point I have no idea what I have nothing I've settled on,

Zinzi Brookbree 55:54

I'm not gonna give you any hints. No clues. Sorry. Predictions, Katherine?

Sage Moreaux 55:59

you, Katherine?

Katherine Suzette 56:00

one that I had early on that I completely forgot about 'cause I got distracted, as I was supposed to, by the dangling relationship drama with Reynald and, Maggie. But I kind of thought, like, from their first encounter when Maggie is telling him how he was supposed to die, I kinda think there's a chance that he will still die just for a different reason, for a different cause. I don't know if it's going to be all in, in book one. I don't know if it's gonna be because he manipulates Maggie and ends up in a shit fest of his own creating or if, he sacrifices himself for Maggie because she's creating a, a web of complicated maneuvers on her chessboard, or something else. But I think if Reynald was supposed to die, this is just giving him a different way to die. how, how is this gonna happen?

Zinzi Brookbree 56:51

You're hedging your bet

Katherine Suzette 56:53

I feel there are opportunities. Who knows which way this is gonna go, but I want to have it noted that I identified several possibilities.

Zinzi Brookbree 57:02

Katherine's, at least one of Katherine's predictions is that Reynald is going to die in, at some point in the story.

Katherine Suzette 57:08

in the low moment

Zinzi Brookbree 57:09

Go ahead, Sage

Sage Moreaux 57:09

feel like that would be a huge gut wrench for Maggie. Of all the people that would die right now, he's the one she's most connected to. you know that thing about, like, you, a author's job is to get, you know, chase your character into a tree, and then get them stuck up there, and then start throwing rocks at them, or set the tree on fire? and then somehow get them down safely. So definitely killing off Reynold is, like, a huge rock being thrown right at Maggie

Katherine Suzette 57:37

I also think Everard's gonna emerge more as a love interest. I think that Reynold is the distraction in the beginning as a love interest, and maybe he has to die and break her heart for her to make some certain calls in the book, and take agency in some certain ways.

Sage Moreaux 57:51

It real grim

Katherine Suzette 57:52

he betrays her and that's the heartbreaking thing. going on here. I feel suspicious. My

Sage Moreaux 57:59

I'm gonna stew about it. Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Brookbree 58:01

That was like your, your, your spidey sense is going off, your story sense is going off I like your theories. They're good. we would love to hear your theories or corrections too. Please put them in the comments. I will see them if they are on Spotify or on YouTube. this brings us to the end of part two, and your homework for the next episode is to read chapters 18 through 22 of part three, Heart of a Knight. Outside of the podcast, you can find us at the Book Dragon Ink Retreats, as well as you can find me running weekly Zoom write-ins at Write With Me, Zinzi Bree, on Substack. we would love for you to check those out. You can find more information about them in the show notes. if you just like our book stuff on here, you can check out our Substack for the podcast, where you can support us directly. Thank you especially to Ria Nancoo for continuing to support us. We really appreciate it. as Maggie says to the magnars, "Survive, get paid." Thank you so much for joining us. See you next time

Katherine Suzette 58:59

Yes. Oh, I forgot a prediction.

Sage Moreaux 59:02

Bye remind me what I'm reading for tomorrow.

Zinzi Brookbree 59:05

18 to 22. Do not go past 22. I straight up will be mad at you if you go past it because it will change things for the rest of the book if you have that information. That's why it was in all caps. I'm very serious.

Katherine Suzette 59:22

episode

Sage Moreaux 59:22

all the way

Zinzi Brookbree 59:23

Finish-

Sage Moreaux 59:24

chapter 22

Zinzi Brookbree 59:26

Yeah, the end of 22,

Sage Moreaux 59:27

of

Zinzi Brookbree 59:27

do not read chapter 23

Sage Moreaux 59:30

Look, I just put a Post-it where I have to stop

Katherine Suzette 59:33

Put that in the texts too.

Sage Moreaux 59:36

Okay.

Katherine Suzette 59:37

being like, "Do not read ahead. I will be

Zinzi Brookbree 59:39

yelled it in the chat,

Sage Moreaux 59:41

it's... Hmm

Zinzi Brookbree 59:42

I will s- I will send you an extra one that's like, "Stop here."

Sage Moreaux 59:46

I will

Zinzi Brookbree 59:47

Ugh.

Sage Moreaux 59:48

that

Zinzi Brookbree 59:48

Pa- and

Sage Moreaux 59:48

makes me

Zinzi Brookbree 59:49

also partly because

Sage Moreaux 59:50

Knowing that is a spoiler, and so now I'm like so what is it that happens that changes the rest of the book? And so that's what my whole

Katherine Suzette 59:56

Exercise and

Sage Moreaux 59:57

next hour is gonna be focused on as I'm driving around. Okay. I'll see you guys tomorrow

Zinzi Brookbree 1:00:07

Bye