Book Dragon Banter

A Christmas Carol Unwrapped: Themes, Adaptations, and Traditions

• Zinzi Brookbree • Season 1 • Episode 11

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A Christmas Carol Unwrapped: Themes, Adaptations, and Traditions | Book Dragon Banter


In this special Christmas episode of Book Dragon Banter, hosts Sage, Katherine, and Zinzi Bree dive into the timeless classic 'A Christmas Carol' by Charles Dickens. We discuss Dickens' storytelling techniques, the book's impact on modern Christmas traditions, and share personal experiences and adaptations of the story. Alongside, we embrace cozy holiday reading traditions like jolabokaflod and share some other festive reads. Join us for a Christmas literary journey and some light-hearted holiday banter.


Linktr.ee: https://linktr.ee/bookdragonbanter 

TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@bookdragonbanterpod

Insta: https://www.instagram.com/bookdragonbanter/

Sage: https://readorbleed.substack.com/

Katherine: https://www.bookdragoneditorial.com/

Write With Me, Zinzi Bree, email: bookdragonbanterpod@gmail.com

Book Dragon Ink Retreats: https://www.bookdragoneditorial.com/ink-retreats


Recommended Holiday Reads list:

Topher’s Library: Holiday Reads You’ll Love https://youtu.be/mPaM9HPMyKw?si=eI12HGGzDN2hr_ga


Other Books Mentioned:

Good Spirits by B.K. Borison

A Hunt so Wild and Cruel: A Fae Christmas Carol Retelling by Rebecca F. Kenney


00:00 Introduction to Book Dragon Banter

00:32 Christmas Episode Vibes

01:09 Discussing 'A Christmas Carol'

04:46 Personal Reflections on Christmas

10:41 Favorite Adaptations of 'A Christmas Carol'

16:54 Surprises and Insights

28:43 Scrooge's Transformation

29:40 The Timelessness of A Christmas Carol

31:06 Religious and Moral Themes

34:16 Dickens' Writing Process

36:16 The Narrator's Voice

39:29 Scrooge's Character Development

49:38 The Spirit of Generosity

51:49 Cozy Christmas Traditions

54:17 Book Recommendations for the Holidays



Get in touch with us!

Zinzi Bree:

Charles Dickens was a writer who frequently felt like his characters, like once he found the right name for them and spoke that name out loud, that character would appear to him. They'd be a real person who would bother him, who would pull on the sleeve of his elbow to be like, Hey, you need to come write. Welcome back to Book Dragon Banter, a podcast where three aspiring authors talk books we're fantasy focused, but not exclusive. join Sage, Katherine, and me Zinzi Bree as we banter about all things books. seasons, greetings. This is our Christmas episode, if you can't tell, for those who are audio only, I am wearing a Santa hat and decked in red. Sage and Katherine both decided to go with green. I'm in red plaid. It's like this is the one time a year that I willingly wear red because the rest of the time I'm in green.'cause that actually is much more flattering on me. But Christmas is the exception. I don't care if it's not a good color on me, it's the time to wear it. Thank you.

Katherine Suzette:

Sage is wearing green and has red headphones I'm just in boring, whole gray. So,

Sage Moreaux:

It is been a

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette:

We've been

Sage Moreaux:

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette:

retreats.

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm. It's been a different vibe. For our holiday special, we wanted to tackle a classic. we decided to read a Christmas Carol, this is a short, itty bitty quick read. I had never read it. Sage, I believe, had not read it before. Katherine is the only one of the three of us. Am I correct, Katherine, that had had read.

Katherine Suzette:

Oh yeah, I,

Sage Moreaux:

Hmm.

Katherine Suzette:

I read it before, but it was like early high school and I have like a little story to go with it, so we'll get there eventually.

Sage Moreaux:

think This is the first Charles Dickens book I'd read also. So that was kind of exciting for me.

Zinzi Bree:

I have watched a lot of dramas that are, movie remakes of Charles Dickens' work. but this is also a first, actually reading his written. I think I've maybe seen like excerpts, or abridged versions of his work. But not anything in its full. And this is just such a nice little. package to get a tasting of Charles Dickens, and his writing style.

Sage Moreaux:

I assume the two of you have similar experience where you've seen movie renditions or maybe the theatrical renditions. So you kind of know the story already, which does make it a little easier in my mind to dive into like a classic, especially from so long ago. It was written mid 18 hundreds. anyway, so the language is, little more challenging. It wasn't too bad, I didn't think, but knowing the story and where we were headed helped me a little. I actually thought it was a pretty easy read, but there were a few parts where I was like, oh, that's what they're getting at.

Zinzi Bree:

so yes, spoilers, although how do you spoil a Christmas carol when there's already been, there's like over 50 adaptations of it in, in film and play. so I don't, I don't know that it's something that can really be spoiled unless you've been living under a rock, in which case, welcome to the world. Glad you're here for Christmas.

Katherine Suzette:

Or modern western culture perhaps.

Zinzi Bree:

Oh, that's a good point. Yes. If you are listening not from the West, then it might be less familiar to you. Although I have a hard time imagining that it hasn't a Christmas Carol has never been out of print, like, since its first printing run. it is the most well known Christmas story outside of like the nativity being considered a Christmas story. So I have a really hard time imagining that there wasn't some version of it translated or remade even in other cultures across the globe. content warning. We are an explicit podcast, so we can give our honest, unfiltered opinions, whatever those may be. seeing as this is a Christmas episode, I, like a Christmas Carol is not raunchy. There's not, there's horror in it. Like this is, it's a ghost story. We'll see what we say by the, oh, no, actually I take it back. There's a specific part that I wanna talk about, that might get us, and I have words, I have things, I have thoughts. There's so much, and we don't have time for all of it. A Christmas carol's written by Charles Dickens, in 1843. something I found really interesting doing some of the research is, this is actually a self-published book. Dickens Self-published this, his publishers rejected it because at the time, in. England and Britain. Christmas was not a well celebrated holiday. it was not like it is now. Boxing Day was a much more important day, at the time. And this is also the time where like Christmas trees had just, the Royal family had just started bringing them over O Tanenbaum, it came from Germany over into England and had just began so like a Christmas Carol. This book is part of what, heavily influences the way that Christmas is celebrated now, it is heavily influenced by a Christmas Carol. I have an icebreaker question for you guys. I wanted to know out of,'cause you know, Christmas Carol is scourge. Old, old, greedy, greedy, money, grubbing man, gets visited by three ghosts. The ghost of Christmas pass, the Ghost of Christmas present and the Ghost of Christmas future, during the course of these three visits, it, leads him to make a dramatic change in personality and have a transformation of the heart and change his greedy gritty ways. but I wanted to ask you ladies, of these three ghosts, which one haunts you? the ghost of Christmas Pass? The Ghost of Christmas. Future. The Ghost of Christmas Present, Katherine.

Katherine Suzette:

For me it is the Ghost of Christmas future because I am one of those worrywart people who's always trying to predict and figure it out. And I'm not very good at just trusting a, going with the flow. So the fear of messing something up and current Christmases, current holidays, current years, whatever, and then having some kind of negative domino effect is definitely a fear of mine.

Sage Moreaux:

I guess I was gonna say, I don't feel haunted by any of them particularly, but I'm gonna change my mind it's gotta be Christmas present, because every year I'm like, oh my goodness, how are we going to fit in all the things that all the different family members wanna do? The expectations, the budget for all of the events and activities and. Gift giving that goes along with Christmas time. And that causes me some lightweight anxiety. Although I try generally not to feed into the anxiety around stuff, but that one does. I think that one, that one gets me.'cause I'm like, oh my God, we're

Zinzi Bree:

How do I do it all?

Sage Moreaux:

and there's all these different events and I wanna do this one, but nobody else wants to do that one. And they all wanna do this and I don't care about that. And it starts to overwhelm.

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

to remember that it's for fun.

Zinzi Bree:

Yep.

Sage Moreaux:

It's a time of joyous engagement and these are all supposed to be activities that make us happy, not feel pressured of required fun time.

Zinzi Bree:

this was not planned, but for me, it's personally the ghost of Christmas past that haunts me. But, the reasoning is all the same. It's all about expectations. the ghost of Christmas past for me is because, I grew up with a really wonderful Christmas experience. I, the last several years have been striving to provide that to my kids as well. the come down Christmas morning and there's a bunch of presents and it's all magical. can I still make that magical Christmas happen. the comparison is the thief of joy. I'm comparing my past Christmases and trying to go, how do I make this one as good, woomph. That's not, that's heavy.

Katherine Suzette:

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux:

I think it fits in with the book because the story is very much about this, like extremely wealthy miser who doesn't want to give, he won't give to charity. He, talks about funding prisons and this sort of thing. He, says Baam bug all the time.

Zinzi Bree:

Anyone

Sage Moreaux:

anytime anyone tries to be kind to him, he's rude.

Zinzi Bree:

doesn't feel himself, but he also is not like giving

Sage Moreaux:

to

Zinzi Bree:

people

Sage Moreaux:

so that other people are in a position. And I feel like that's very resonant in our current state of the world right now where a lot of

Zinzi Bree:

are struggling

Sage Moreaux:

lot of people

Zinzi Bree:

are,

Sage Moreaux:

not able to. afford Christmas like they used to. Everything is

Zinzi Bree:

mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

And you know, do we go in super debt to make Christmas magical for our children?

Zinzi Bree:

No.

Sage Moreaux:

that

Zinzi Bree:

The answer is no.

Sage Moreaux:

Now the answer is no.

Zinzi Bree:

Sorry. Will I listen to my own advice? Time will tell.

Sage Moreaux:

so, you know, the story is a classic for a reason and part of it is that it is very resonant. And I imagine besides the Christmas joy and the idea of like what Christmas looks like, it's also like what it means to be a good human.

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

How being kind to others, like, that's ultimately to me what Christmas is about is like, it's, yes, there's the childhood magic of coming and seeing all the gifts and like that is, and Santa like that is magical for real. But over time, like the magic is like being together with people you love and being happy with them. And that is what Scrooge ended up ultimately learning, right? Is that he needed to feel that joy, and also help provide it for others.

Katherine Suzette:

So maybe we feel it right now, but it sounds like the Christmas Carol is a classic because it is always something that people, somewhere, some way can resonate with. when Dickens wrote it, between then and now, that's why it's never left print probably is because it's always been relevant.

Zinzi Bree:

I couldn't help but read it and go okay, as a reader, do I identify with the Bob Crochets where I'm hoping that all of the Ebony or Scrooge of the world are gonna, you know, wake up and have, have been visited by these spirits and are gonna be more generous. I am a bit more of a cynic where I don't feel like people are reading this and identifying as often with scrooge and the need to be generous to be, more open-hearted. Culturally, I think we've shifted more towards. Uh, a woe is me attitude. Now, to be fair, um, Bob Crochet, he's very humble. He is in particular is very grateful for what he has. Even if it is an awful job for Scrooge but even in that, he's still humble. as opposed to his wife who recognizes that Scrooge is a jackass and could be treating him better. and is telling Bob, Hey, Scrooge sucks. All right. So, we are trying to change our structure a little bit and we wanted to do from the reader's chair. We read it and the reader part of our brains, what did we enjoy? what were we surprised by? what is the fun experience of the book versus the more analytical that we will get into, when we talk about it from the writer's desk? question for you guys is, had you seen a movie or play adaptation first before having read the book? What was, your first experience and what is your favorite adaptation?

Katherine Suzette:

Hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

My first experience with

Sage Moreaux:

Carol was the Disney version with like Mickey Mouse and Scrooge, who I always was a big Donald Duck fan. And so Scrooge McDuck, like perfectly cast, clearly named after this character.

Zinzi Bree:

that was like,

Sage Moreaux:

my first, and then there was the Muppet version. live

Zinzi Bree:

right? So, and I have seen.

Sage Moreaux:

theatrical performances also, including a beautiful one a couple years ago in San Francisco, which was just like phenomenal. And very different from Mickey Mouse, same story, same general messaging, but tone was very different from like the for the kids versions.

Zinzi Bree:

So it was really,

Sage Moreaux:

fun to read the story and kind of remember those different things and see how, it varied.

Zinzi Bree:

the thing for me is that I

Sage Moreaux:

generally go to the Dickens Fair every Christmas season,

Zinzi Bree:

ooh,

Katherine Suzette:

Ooh.

Sage Moreaux:

it's in a big warehouse and it's set up to look like Old England, like as if you're outside and there are little shops and there is a tea house and it's all based on the mid 18 hundreds Victorian era.

Zinzi Bree:

ooh,

Sage Moreaux:

is wandering around and Queen Victoria gets brought through on her chair and there's pick pockets and there's the docks and there's all these plays about like historical, fun, historical elements. People dress up everybody, we

Zinzi Bree:

up

Sage Moreaux:

as a family and we go, and there's dancing. And what

Zinzi Bree:

I.

Sage Moreaux:

was that I had not read, read this, right? But when they talk about the fuzzy wigs and how they were dancing and the Fuzzy wigs house, there is the F wigs dance hall, which is one of the sections of the Dickens Fair, where you can go and participate and do

Zinzi Bree:

Ballroom dancing, actually.

Sage Moreaux:

I don't actually know how to do that. So you can, I can sit and watch as the like fuzzy wigs dance around with all of their friends and it's, that was really a

Zinzi Bree:

fun

Sage Moreaux:

association to make for me. So I was really loving that.

Zinzi Bree:

Do they do ballroom dancing or do they do like Virginia real folk dancing where it's, you can have more varieties because those are very different ballroom dance versus like a Victorian party dance where you can, join in and, yeah.

Sage Moreaux:

There's

Zinzi Bree:

Okay.

Sage Moreaux:

like the, where you line up and you, go around and do like the reels and then there is some that is more, waltzy

Zinzi Bree:

Okay.

Sage Moreaux:

style. So a little bit of both

Katherine Suzette:

a good waltz

Zinzi Bree:

More than that, I love it.

Katherine Suzette:

on a waltz, to be fair.

Sage Moreaux:

helps a

Zinzi Bree:

Good. Yeah. Good lead is

Katherine Suzette:

does.

Zinzi Bree:

required.

Katherine Suzette:

Yes.

Zinzi Bree:

And

Katherine Suzette:

Hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

I

Katherine Suzette:

vacation there.

Zinzi Bree:

in Victoria, in England, I don't, um, not

Katherine Suzette:

Fair, it

Sage Moreaux:

at the Dickens Fair,

Zinzi Bree:

I have left toilet.

Katherine Suzette:

go.

Zinzi Bree:

Yes. I actually wanna travel at a time

Katherine Suzette:

I

Zinzi Bree:

just wanna have.

Katherine Suzette:

it modernized and

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette:

the

Zinzi Bree:

You want the one day party and then you wanna go home and lay down on the floor. Um, at least that's what I want.

Katherine Suzette:

I can second it.

Zinzi Bree:

Yep. I don't have a memory necessarily of a first, adaptation, but, Muppet's Christmas Carol is very beloved in my house. We just watched it, while we have decorated for Christmas. And I think I've seen it most years of my life since it came out at least once a year. And it was actually really fun this time because I'd watched it so recently and then read the book is going, oh, this line is directly taken from, the book at the end. when Gonzo, who's playing Dickens says, and Tiny Tim is not dead, like in the text of the book that is capitalized, tiny Tim is not dead. at the end of the story, like that's, that's a direct, narrative line that they both share. And I appreciated those, seeing more of those touches than in that adaptation as well as seeing the things that, in the book are much more horror based and ghost story based. the closest they get is, Christmas future being the most haunting of the spirits and the darkest that, Muppet Christmas Carol really gets. So that's Muppet Christmas. Carol is, I love it because it's so accessible and it gets to the heart of the story. and the warmth of a Christmas c Carol,

Katherine Suzette:

I have a controversial opinion. the Muppets are actually. terrifying to me

Zinzi Bree:

I, I'm

Katherine Suzette:

I'm not

Zinzi Bree:

not,

Katherine Suzette:

that

Zinzi Bree:

I'm not a doll person.

Katherine Suzette:

or anything.

Zinzi Bree:

puppets

Katherine Suzette:

are

Zinzi Bree:

scary.

Katherine Suzette:

I don't

Zinzi Bree:

So for you, this is a much more haunting look. the Moffits Christmas hero is the haunting version.

Katherine Suzette:

yeah, I would actually to hold somebody's hand to watch the home movie all the way through for the Puppet, the Muppets, that one is not gonna do it for me. it is interesting that the Christmas Carol is like a horror Christmas story that still has a good tale. And am put in mind of the Grinch, which is actually a movie that my family is more likely to watch, at Christmas time, and how much that may have actually been inspired by Scrooge and the ghosts of Christmas, past, present, and future,

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

Hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

It's the same transformation story.

Katherine Suzette:

Yes, exactly. that scrooge like demeanor to loving it almost to the extent of excess and taking care of other people and being incredibly joyful and spreading that joy around is definitely the theme in both of those. but for the version that I saw first I saw of the movies first, and actually I was. Homeschooled in high school, one of my mother's lessons for us was to essentially watch all of the Christmas Carol versions that were out at that time and read the book and do an analysis of the differences. we definitely put our hearts into that one I refused to do the Muppets. I still refuse to watch it. I think other family members may have seen it and I saw the previews and I was like, not a chance, no way. That's not happening. yeah, I saw them all and then I read the book and then I did an analysis.

Zinzi Bree:

speaking of analysis, having had movie versions in your mind, first, were there things in, the book version that surprised you? the thing that

Sage Moreaux:

me, I have a really lovely, copy that was illustrated kind of

Zinzi Bree:

somewhat recently

Sage Moreaux:

like definitely in this century, and had these lovely little illustrations, but was the descriptions of the ghosts

Zinzi Bree:

and.

Sage Moreaux:

I think that the Ghost of Christmas future was the most, like I expected with the chains and the of grim reaper style. I'm just gonna hold this picture up for those watching, but this is like a cute picture here of the ghost of Christmas past and he is this weird childish, like, you can't tell if he is a child or old man. the descriptions of those ghosts really kind of weren't what I remembered. I haven't watched any of the movies recently, so I can't identify that Not how they're depicted, it wasn't how I recalled

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

least.

Katherine Suzette:

Hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

I kind of wonder if the way that Christmas present is depicted as someone who is jolly and large. with the feast that he sits on when he gets introduced. has filtered down to now why we depict Santa the way that we do as someone who is jolly enlarge,

Sage Moreaux:

that's

Zinzi Bree:

opposed to,'cause like Saint Nicholas is, I don't think is supposed to be fat, until he becomes like the, the Santa, but like, it's just, it's the back of my mind theory is that because up until this book, as far as I know, like ghosts were supposed to be spooky and scary. Like a Jolly spirit, a jolly ghost,

Sage Moreaux:

mm-hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

novel concept maybe. So, if someone else did it, let me know.

Sage Moreaux:

Well, there was Casper, the friendly Ghost

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah. But that, I mean, way later Sage. Yes. Way later. Yeah. And I, I don't think that Christmas present is an inspiration for Casper, the friendly ghost.

Sage Moreaux:

No.

Katherine Suzette:

Hmm. I wonder if like tales of, of benevolent Faye and things like that though might have been the, the benevolent ghost inspiration,

Sage Moreaux:

Hmm.

Katherine Suzette:

like, the hearth keepers and things like that,

Zinzi Bree:

Maybe I do not know.

Katherine Suzette:

I do not know.

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah. It just, it struck me,'cause like childlike ghosts or spirits, I feel like those are not unheard of, but just like to have a, a jolly ghost

Sage Moreaux:

Hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

that, that is a really unexpected twist. because I mean, also speaking of having a ghost story, a Christmas Carol is a ghost story. Like I do not, Christmas is not a time for ghost stories. Halloween is for ghost stories. so even that concept of it being in the past where that's what Christmas looked like was telling these spooky stories, was surprising to me to learn about. And a Christmas Carol is not Charles Dickens only Christmas ghost story book. he has. at least four, other Christmas books that he wrote. Just this is the most successful one.

Katherine Suzette:

I did not know.

Zinzi Bree:

And they're all short novelists,

Katherine Suzette:

Did he publish the Christmas Carol

Zinzi Bree:

chapter No,

Katherine Suzette:

week was released. Maybe it was great expectations or, or a different one

Zinzi Bree:

So Charles,

Katherine Suzette:

it back.

Zinzi Bree:

I dunno that,

Katherine Suzette:

just think that,

Zinzi Bree:

yeah. Charles Dickens is his books and his style of releasing chapter by chapter. he's the one that made that serialization popular. but he was not paid by word. He was paid by like chapter section. so him just being verbose is his choice. That's not him trying to pad words to get more money out of it. but a, a Christmas Carol was self-published, and written in a matter of six weeks. He was originally gonna write a, like a political pamphlet and then decided, it would actually be better to tell what he wanted to say, in the form of a story. and then he took it to the publishers and they went, no, Christmas is not important enough. You've had a couple of flops. Oliver Twist was great, but we haven't had another Oliver Twist, so no thanks. so he, he went and he was like, I really believe in this. I'm gonna take the risk and self-published it, the books sold out all of the first printing sold out, before Christmas. but he, of the money that he put out for that first printing, like his, it was like 2000 pounds and his return was like around 170 pounds is what he made back in profit from that first run, something like that. and he was terribly in debt at the time and was panicking, trying to write this book so that he could, keep his extravagant lifestyle. Is there anything else we wanna talk about from the reader's chair? Go ahead.

Sage Moreaux:

so Katherine had mentioned that she read a couple of different. Versions.

Zinzi Bree:

that,

Sage Moreaux:

me also to look for adaptations.'cause like I said, I had seen a bunch of television movie, and theatrical versions,

Zinzi Bree:

But they're all very,

Sage Moreaux:

consistent with

Zinzi Bree:

the story and the one

Sage Moreaux:

I

Zinzi Bree:

came,

Sage Moreaux:

across I didn't get a chance to read the whole thing. is like a romantic called a hunt. So Wild and cruel.

Zinzi Bree:

Hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

Did you read that one, Katherine?

Katherine Suzette:

No,

Sage Moreaux:

Okay.

Zinzi Bree:

have not heard about this.

Katherine Suzette:

Carol.

Sage Moreaux:

okay.

Zinzi Bree:

I was looking

Sage Moreaux:

so I was looking on

Zinzi Bree:

and

Sage Moreaux:

like, searching for a Christmas Carol.

Zinzi Bree:

mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

looking for a Christmas Carol adaptation.

Zinzi Bree:

Retellings

Sage Moreaux:

definitely like it's a retelling, it's based on the same concept the premise is that there's this queen, It's a queen who's very greedy and she's young, but she's just new to being a queen. And she's greedy and she's selfish. and she cancels the winter festivities because she had this sad upbringing and she doesn't have a lot of happy associations with the season. And then the Wild Hunt, which is a, folk

Zinzi Bree:

mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

element that I love and have always been drawn to. So the Wild Hunt comes down to like teach her the era of her ways. And there's these three like strapping sexy members of the wild hunt that come and haunt her and convince her. based on the description and the way it was going, it seems like it's gonna have the same moral to the story just in a very like, of hot, sexy Faye way that Romantic loves these days is very popular. so anyone who reads the original and is looking for like a modern romantic retelling, that might be a fun take. But I was thinking maybe Katherine had read that one because you said you had a few that you had read.

Katherine Suzette:

but I was reading like versions and adaptations of a Christmas carol So they were all, the original story,

Zinzi Bree:

a book that I just started that I'm four chapters into B.k. Borison's Good Spirits, which is a fantasy rom-com like romantic that is based on, a Christmas Carol in some ways, but it's a retelling because the romantic interest is the ghost of Christmas past and he is

Sage Moreaux:

like the one I was talking about where it was the wild hunt

Zinzi Bree:

yeah, maybe,

Sage Moreaux:

Romancey.

Zinzi Bree:

well, it's a contemporary novel.

Sage Moreaux:

it.

Zinzi Bree:

it feels more in vain with like the spirited movie, movie musical so far. but I'm really enjoying the audio book version in particular. they have really good narrators. I like the warmth of the, female narrator's voice. And then, the male narrator, the character's Irish, so the narrator is doing an Irish accent. I don't know if he actually is Irish. but I'm having a really good time because every time he's talking, it starts making me think that I need to be doing the accent. And I just go into that upper register where like there's so much more air that comes out to your mouth when you're trying to do the accent. Um, so I've just had, like, he'll, I'll be listening and he'll say stuff and then I'll be like sitting there mouthing it and I must look like a crazy person, but I'm having a great time.

Katherine Suzette:

do that too.

Sage Moreaux:

That's amazing.

Katherine Suzette:

authors and I'll just start repeating it. I'll be like, okay, yes, I can talk like them, or they'll do some cockney and I'll be like, Hey, I could do that. Hey, okay.

Sage Moreaux:

I don't do accents. Sorry. Nothing here.

Katherine Suzette:

I wanted to say that something else I was surprised about, especially because you guys were talking about the naming conventions of Charles Dickens, is actually that, Bob Crochet, I, for some reason had forgotten that his first name was Bob. So when I was re-listening to it, just kept standing out to me like I was doing the dishes and I was like, Bob, who in a Charles Dickens universe is called Bob? Like what? There's nothing wrong with the name, but it stood out in contrast to the other choices made for the book. And I thought that that was an, an interesting choice, especially since scratch it, it fits the universe that I believe Dickens was writing.

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah, I was surprised.

Katherine Suzette:

a reader by the name Bob.

Zinzi Bree:

the name that is, is Stumping me, is Scrooge's nephew. Is his nephew named in the book,

Sage Moreaux:

I don't think so.

Zinzi Bree:

going along the continuing in the reader's chair, something that made me uncomfortable as a reader, but I think that was Charles Dickens' intention is at the end of the interaction with, the ghost of Christmas present. There are the two children hanging onto his feet under the robe. one of them, it's a girl and a boy, and one of them is ignorance is the name, and the other one is want.

Sage Moreaux:

Yeah.

Zinzi Bree:

when applying that to your Christmas present, how those are a drag, a literal drag on your feet is want and ignorance. I understand why that's not in the Muppets version but like I was both horrified and intrigued, to see it in the story. and just that is something I think is gonna stick with me going forward, thinking about the Christmas season,

Sage Moreaux:

hmm,

Zinzi Bree:

several of the other, moral points of a Christmas Carol. They've been so done. I've heard them so much. I don't take them in and this is something that I felt was fresh and that will stick with me because, I'm also in a place to receive this part of the message of this book. Um, but it just, it uncomfortable

Sage Moreaux:

it

Zinzi Bree:

and it's the point.

Sage Moreaux:

very powerful.

Zinzi Bree:

Like,

Sage Moreaux:

I

Zinzi Bree:

I remember being kind

Sage Moreaux:

reading it and then having to reread that section and it was only like a paragraph or

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux:

And agree,

Zinzi Bree:

Like very powerful

Sage Moreaux:

And for

Zinzi Bree:

such a

Sage Moreaux:

Small

Zinzi Bree:

bit of writing,

Sage Moreaux:

like sticks with

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm. And I agree like the, because the whole book is, you know,

Sage Moreaux:

Scrooge learning how to

Zinzi Bree:

change

Sage Moreaux:

and it happens in stages.

Zinzi Bree:

mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

to recognize the or of his ways and see that

Zinzi Bree:

you wanna change things

Sage Moreaux:

throughout

Zinzi Bree:

the course

Sage Moreaux:

It doesn't

Zinzi Bree:

happen

Sage Moreaux:

at the

Zinzi Bree:

end

Sage Moreaux:

but this was like, whoa.

Zinzi Bree:

and kind of

Sage Moreaux:

not talked about again,

Zinzi Bree:

mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

still

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah. I did appreciate, seeing that it happens in little bits and even getting those thoughts of like, Scrooge Seas, his interactions with Fezziwig as his boss when he was. A young man, and then he makes a line about, oh, I wish I could have a word or two with my clerk. and he had like, there's those repeated like, oh, I've seen this. Oh, that makes me change my opinion a little bit here, a little bit here, a little bit here, until, by the time we get down to, Christmas future, it's a much more drastic, oh no, please. I'll keep Christmas in my hearts. And all the year long his, final speech that he gets, before waking up and celebrating, ah, my bed post. It's my bed. It's Christmas day. Throw the curtains open. It's the Turkey still in the window. I will not do the whole thing. I'll stop there. I like seeing that layered throughout, but it, even though it is still a change in a short period of time, you still, as the reader are understanding that it's happening for Scrooge, in increments until he, you know, has this transformation. what to you guys makes a Christmas Carol timeless as a reader.

Katherine Suzette:

Oh, it's

Zinzi Bree:

Seems like the,

Katherine Suzette:

The children hanging onto the ghost that I think make it timeless.

Zinzi Bree:

I would say that is

Katherine Suzette:

applicable today as it was in the day that wrote it, that this want, that, this desire and one's ignorance, sometimes willful ignorance is distracting and leads to this very self-focused, way of handling one's holidays, if not

Zinzi Bree:

not

Katherine Suzette:

and it can spill

Zinzi Bree:

over negatively.

Katherine Suzette:

others for sure.

Sage Moreaux:

The like personal, how can I be a better person daily, not just on Christmas. How can I be more charitable in my heart? How can I be more loving and, yes to an invitation? Go spend time away from work with family or friends and

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

you know, there's, so that's a piece that like each one of us can take in. But the, then there's the bigger like thing about how it is, the story is very. Powerful I think probably since it was written, people feel

Zinzi Bree:

like, yeah.

Sage Moreaux:

rich

Zinzi Bree:

people

Sage Moreaux:

pay

Zinzi Bree:

out.

Sage Moreaux:

Help the world be a better place by sharing your wealth.

Zinzi Bree:

I think that

Sage Moreaux:

like

Zinzi Bree:

like

Sage Moreaux:

hooks people.

Zinzi Bree:

Yep. when it was published, the, charitable giving, post, the Christmas carol coming out, it like exploded.

Sage Moreaux:

Awesome.

Zinzi Bree:

Something that I think, that part of why a Christmas Carol is timeless is because even though, Charles Dickens was a professed Christian, a Christmas Carol itself is not a Christian book. There is, you know, there's, God bless us everyone. There's a mention of tiny Tim and Bob Crochet going to church, but there's, Jesus is not part of the book, right? Like the, the Christian faith outside of. Those mentions. ghosts and spirits are certainly not, in this if, if, if it was a Christian book, like they would be angels, they would be visiting angels, they wouldn't be haunts. Right?

Sage Moreaux:

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

so it is not religious in that way, and I think that's part of what it has allowed it to be timeless because it didn't get pigeonholed into like, oh no, but that's a Christian book. letting the morals be there without it being preached as a specific religious tenant, I think is part of what allows it to be timeless and adaptable. Definitely. And I think, like

Sage Moreaux:

as, cause

Zinzi Bree:

I would agree with you,

Sage Moreaux:

there is a few mentions of God in there, but it doesn't have like a strong moralizing around God says this, or Jesus says this, right? Like

Zinzi Bree:

Yep.

Sage Moreaux:

the moral is more about like being a good person I

Zinzi Bree:

I think as

Sage Moreaux:

is celebrated by people who don't have,

Zinzi Bree:

like,

Sage Moreaux:

I am agnostic and I celebrate Christmas'cause that's how I was raised. So we never went to church or anything like that. But we still have, the commercial version of Christmas where there's presents and there's Santa and there is still the concept of like goodwill towards people

Zinzi Bree:

and,

Sage Moreaux:

spending time with family and having like this warmth through a cold, dark time of the year. That kind of stuff comes through. But it's not anything to do with Jesus being born, right?

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux:

other side of Christmas, of the American commercial side of Christmas. And this book worked great with that because it kind of has,

Zinzi Bree:

a lot of the things you just listed are directly from a Christmas carol that it's descended from this book becoming, so prevalent and changing the way that Christmas was celebrated.

Sage Moreaux:

It is really interesting to me that this book being, like when we were talking about what book to choose for the podcast, like I couldn't think of very many novels that were Christmas themed outside romance novels that have like Christmas

Zinzi Bree:

mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

but I couldn't think of

Zinzi Bree:

Anything that,

Sage Moreaux:

like a classic where like, this is the book outside of this one. And

Zinzi Bree:

yeah.

Sage Moreaux:

that it is Christmas, but it is not

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

terribly religious. It, it's, it's fascinating.

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette:

it

Zinzi Bree:

the definitely

Katherine Suzette:

a moral story as opposed to. A religious story in this case. You know that said though, I love the magic of Christmas and I would love to believe that there is an embodiment of this Saint Nicholas spirit or even the ghost of Christmas, past, present, and future that visit people.

Sage Moreaux:

It does make me wonder,

Katherine Suzette:

past, present, and future of Christmas

Zinzi Bree:

to the writer's desk I didn't have a chance to read the book of, the Man who Invented Christmas, but I did get to watch a movie that was an adaptation. it does have some fictionalization, to sort of the autobiography elements of Charles Dickens writing a Christmas Carol. but it was really fun to see. Charles Dickens was a writer who frequently felt like his characters, like once he found the right name for them and spoke that name out loud, like that character would appear to him. Like they'd be a real person who would bother him, who would like, pull on the sleeve of his elbow to be like, Hey, you need to come write.

Katherine Suzette:

that.

Zinzi Bree:

so something really fun that they did with this movie is they had these actors, the actor who played Scrooge, like he was basically a ghost who was haunting, was Dickens as he was trying to write, A Christmas Carol. Yeah. And you got to see kind of like how, Charles Dickens drew inspiration from different interactions around him that he had. He had a little book that he carried around with him, and he would write down any interesting name that he came across. So he'd have a book of names and that's what he would use to, then name his characters later. So it was just, a very, fun way of getting some insight into the creation process of this book. So I recommend giving it a watch. There's also a rumor, and this was something that was interesting, but there's also, a rumor or a belief that Charles Dickens was bipolar. part of the genius of him and his ability to, create so many works of, value to literature were created during manic times of being able to scribble and get a ton done. but then he would have low lows and go on, lots of midnight walks through the city, which is part of why they think that's part of the diagnosis for, bipolar apparently. he's a prolific letter writer. to

Katherine Suzette:

have texting.

Zinzi Bree:

to understand his life and his process and things like that. I have something.

Sage Moreaux:

the writer's

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

share that

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah. So I was,

Sage Moreaux:

at the beginning of the story thinking from like a writer perspective and what kind of current modern sensibility around storytelling

Zinzi Bree:

mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

and are there prologues

Zinzi Bree:

the

Sage Moreaux:

whatever. And at the

Zinzi Bree:

very beginning,

Sage Moreaux:

like literally the second paragraph of the story. He talks about how old Marley was as dead as a

Zinzi Bree:

door,

Sage Moreaux:

old Marley was as dead as a

Zinzi Bree:

door

Sage Moreaux:

And then he

Zinzi Bree:

goes, this thing about

Sage Moreaux:

how not. knowing

Zinzi Bree:

it a coffee nail? Why is it dead As a doornail,

Sage Moreaux:

nail?

Zinzi Bree:

I was like, this is such clear narrator voice that I was like, okay, I'm here. I'm being like, I am sitting in the room and Dickens is telling me this story. it's not Scrooge telling me the story. It's Dickens. And I love the narrator's voice and I love when the narrator has so much personality. I feel like that's so much rarer and harder to find. I miss it. I love that. I love a narrator who's like up in all of the characters' business.

Sage Moreaux:

Yeah. And like it's his voice and it's unique and interesting and I feel like everything is, not to say everything,'cause there's plenty of unique books out there and plenty of different author styles, but I definitely feel like there's this expectation of what it, if you wanna be published, you have to fall into this category. I mean, you're saying he did self-publish, so I don't know.

Zinzi Bree:

This one?

Sage Moreaux:

it had to do with that. It had to do with, the Christmas not being a popular

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

time of year.

Zinzi Bree:

At the time.

Sage Moreaux:

that. it immediately was like, oh, this is gonna be a unique story. I'm excited to read it from paragraph two.

Katherine Suzette:

Yeah, and I mean, despite the fact that it was a ghost story, it still set the scene for me to feel like Dick. Sat me down by a fire and we were having this talk. And then he starts in on his story and he has a very personal side note about door nails that I could totally relate to. And I was suddenly like, oh, that's funny. And it set me up as a reader to be ready for him to like open the book and start telling the story. And he closed it in a very similar manner

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette:

comments from the narrator, it's almost like you could feel the cinematic pulling away from the story.

Sage Moreaux:

Yeah.

Katherine Suzette:

I think that that is incredibly unique to him. also looking back at books, pre about a hundred years ago, the narrator voice was more common, than we see it now. And maybe it was not always done consistently well, but I see it a lot more and I see a lot of character in that from the authors behind these stories.

Sage Moreaux:

There was almost more character in the narrator and in Scrooge than there were in some of the like side characters

Zinzi Bree:

absolutely.

Sage Moreaux:

right. Bob Raett didn't feel as, I mean, he was in the story enough, but he didn't feel like as mean of a character as he as in some of the cartoon retellings and retellings.

Zinzi Bree:

more about Bob Crochet and Tiny Tim in the Muppets Carol because you're carrying, you know, just like with, fan fiction is you're carrying all of your care and love for the Muppets if they were part of your childhood into that version of the story, as opposed to just meeting the characters freshly without the, that extra weight to them.

Sage Moreaux:

And without the author, like really making you care about

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

to spend time on the page to do that. Right.

Zinzi Bree:

for such a short book, something I really admire is like Scrooge is really depicted as awful. He's mean to his nephew. this was the note that I wanted to come back to after seeing the movie Adaptation, which is a Christmas Carol adaptation spirited with Ryan Reynolds and, will Ferrell, and there's an entire song called Good Afternoon. How Good Afternoon is Basically saying Fuck off to people. And he says it to his nephew like three times in the book, good afternoon. So every time I was like, so he's, he's ba he's telling his nephew to fuck off like multiple times there. And I just started laughing. Yep.

Sage Moreaux:

It's a very polite way you can say it in any company.

Zinzi Bree:

I was just like, thank you to that movie for forever changing my perspective on good afternoon. and then seeing it here specifically in a Christmas carol that was extra fun.

Katherine Suzette:

For did this really bring up theme to you? Like at from the writer's desk, the writer's perspective? Were either of you considering throughout this the strength of theme in one story?

Zinzi Bree:

hmm.

Katherine Suzette:

I was definitely in mind of that,

Zinzi Bree:

I struggle to write theme. That's one of the things that for me, I don't write two theme. It's I write story and then I see what, my character's decisions were that organically lend itself to a theme. And then I have to go back in, in a later draft to like, bring those thematic tones out more and layer it throughout the course of the story instead of just like, okay, this is what we ended up with at the end. but to be able to do that in, this is what 90 pages, maybe that's something that I need to try doing in such a, you know, to do a novel, to do a shorter, tight. Thematic work, may just be a really good exercise in building that muscle, because I think a lot of the books that really matter and become timeless and become classics are books that are built around a theme that have something to say that aren't just, this is here for fun and you're eating it up like potato chips, right? Like, there's plenty of those books and they are fun. but they're not gonna be on your list of, this is my favorite of all time.

Sage Moreaux:

Mm-hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

They're not gonna be the, I go back to read this every year during the holidays.

Katherine Suzette:

I hear you. But that's very interesting the way that you describe your writing process. Because for

Zinzi Bree:

For me, I,

Katherine Suzette:

similarly and I think a lot of other authors, especially those on the discovery side of things, feel the same way. But theme helps us to clarify in our revisions

Sage Moreaux:

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette:

we're communicating to our audience.

Zinzi Bree:

I wonder

Katherine Suzette:

Dickens didn't start out with

Zinzi Bree:

with.

Katherine Suzette:

theme as his premise. He had a very distinct message he wanted to communicate about Scrooge and about self transformation. And especially how the holidays were a great opportunity to lean into the person you actually want to be, as opposed to the person that steals joy from all of these other people. I wonder if Dickens didn't start out with the theme as his premise as opposed to like those of us who are more discovery,

Sage Moreaux:

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Suzette:

an

Zinzi Bree:

as oppossed to

Katherine Suzette:

a fun. Idea, and then we figure it out later from there.

Sage Moreaux:

I, generally I am like a combination of a discovery writer and an outliner, so I will have. Ideas come to me that are like characters or scenes that like come from the universe into my mind. And that starts me off telling myself a story in my head. And I actually do that a lot more before I actually sit down and start writing words down on the page. And then I will start writing and I will start outlining, almost simultaneously. So I will be writing and then I will take a break and I'll outline and I'll do more writing. And then ultimately I have a super, super messy draft and I go back and do a reverse outline and a clean draft to then revise to actually get to the point where I could publish it. But, definitely theme starts to come in at some point for me where I start to notice, like as the story is evolving, I start to notice these elements that I didn't necessarily come up with, but I will start to consider more. and I think for Dickens, like I can see this being almost like answering a thematic question. So what can turn a miserly man somebody generous could be your thematic question. What does it take

Katherine Suzette:

him.

Sage Moreaux:

for a miserly man to Yeah, you Yeah, exactly. You show him how nobody gives a shit that he's dead, what you know, when he dies.

Katherine Suzette:

They're gonna take everything he's spent all these years obsessed with collecting and they all just take it as if it's nothing, as if it's their due for putting up with him.

Sage Moreaux:

Yeah, seriously. And it's all gone and there's nothing to remember him by. Right. There's no fond memories and there's no material possessions. so yeah. But, I can see him, especially from what Zinzi said about his backstory, I can see of Dickens himself. I can see him having this idea in his head of the story he wanted to tell, and then kind of crafting the characters, around that. Or maybe Scrooge came to him, as a character that had that story and then he built it. I would think that he had the theme in mind early on, especially since it sounded like he wrote it pretty quickly. he had a story he wanted to tell with a moral I'm not trying to get across a moral message. I'm trying to create a story with characters that is meaningful, where there is growth and whatnot. My general themes tend to be a little broader of like finding balance and stuff like this.

Katherine Suzette:

I think it's interesting every single writer's

Sage Moreaux:

I,

Katherine Suzette:

is different, and I really wish I could talk to Charles Dickens about how this story developed for him, because maybe he discovered it. Maybe he had a weird trip and he wrote the premise of the story and then he was like, oh, now I see it. Now I have a theme. And then he revised it accordingly maybe he was like, I really need to write theme. How am I gonna do it? Especially because of whatever political or social things were going on at the time. And then the Scrooge came to him and then the ghosts came to him. Like, how do I force Scrooge into this change? Oh, well maybe it's ghosts. I really wish I knew what came first for him. The chicken or the egg.

Zinzi Bree:

I added a little additional section about, making Christmas cozy because, it was really depressing to me after I learned the extra background information about Charles Dickens and it kind of, it colored, a Christmas Carol. I wanted this episode to be more fun and lighthearted. I was hoping it wouldn't get super, political or, here's, I mean, we went political, we went, religious differences and christmas is normally the time of like, put that all aside so everyone can be together, right? Like that's,

Katherine Suzette:

Hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

but I personally am like, no, you can bring that to the table and have a healthy, respectful conversation even if you disagree on things. that's what I would prefer. But anyway, I, for myself was like, I am in this negative mindset. I really need to get out of it. I'm gonna go research jolabokaflod, which is, the Christmas book Flood, an Icelandic tradition, where it is a book exchange celebrated on December 24th. everyone exchanges a book. You get your book, you get hot chocolate, and then you go read that book. that's your day. That is the, that's the whole thing.

Katherine Suzette:

it. please.

Zinzi Bree:

and you go read. So now, personally in my household doing that on December 24th is not, not gonna be an option, whatsoever,'cause family partying and all that. but I do still think that the idea of jolabokaflod, this like self-care. I'm gonna have a book, I'm gonna have my hot chocolate, I'm gonna have a, a cozy minute and just enjoy my book and fully, a step back from all of the other busyness of the season. Like I feel like this is an opportunity to do that. But I think especially as a mom who has to make the magic happen is really important to also take that time to make magic happen for myself. That's, you know, self-care moment.

Katherine Suzette:

Hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

so personally what I'm hoping to do, the day after Christmas, when everything has sort of calmed down and the, the craziness is done. So December 26th can be all a book of flood and you get your book, you get your hot chocolates, you have your day of rest to read and go, just, take care of yourself and rejuvenate, post Christmas if that's what you need.

Katherine Suzette:

it.

Zinzi Bree:

but

Sage Moreaux:

that too.

Katherine Suzette:

Book of Flood instead of Boxing Day.

Zinzi Bree:

I don't actually know like, what is Boxing Day? I don't know anything about that holiday or why it's celebrated.

Sage Moreaux:

I thought it was when you boxed up stuff and gave it to charity. so like,

Zinzi Bree:

whatever.

Sage Moreaux:

I'm gonna put it in the boxes and donate it

Zinzi Bree:

This is my ignorant American showing, but I literally thought Boxing Day had something to do with the sport like that.

Katherine Suzette:

yeah.

Sage Moreaux:

I thought

Zinzi Bree:

like a sport holiday.

Sage Moreaux:

stuff that you didn't like that you got for Christmas and send it back to the return desk.

Katherine Suzette:

Tell us what it actually is.

Zinzi Bree:

I may have to cut this'cause I don't want us to look super ignorant guys.

Sage Moreaux:

Ignorance

Zinzi Bree:

and,

Sage Moreaux:

want clutching up my legs right now.

Zinzi Bree:

yeah, for sure.

Sage Moreaux:

yeah. I just wanna say, I did, boxing Day is the day of giving Christmas boxes of gifts, money, or leftover food to the servants or tradespeople who worked on Christmas Day. So who didn't get that day off as a holiday then, that's the day that people

Zinzi Bree:

so then is,

Sage Moreaux:

them

Zinzi Bree:

Boxing Day where we got the Christmas present exchange part of Christmas and then the meaning of Goodwill part was the Christmas Carol trickle down?

Sage Moreaux:

Possibly. And then it was also that, it used to be on December 26th, St. Stephen's Day or St. Stephen's

Zinzi Bree:

mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

was when you would open the church alms boxes and distribute that to the poor. And so that's like a similar thing with

Zinzi Bree:

Hmm

Sage Moreaux:

being given to the poor.

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux:

But now we know.

Zinzi Bree:

so follow up question that I feel like I have to ask. having read Christmas Carol having a big theme of it being generosity, did it make you think about, oh, this is something, an area. Yourself that like, okay, I can, for example, my kid's school is currently doing a food pantry drive. and I don't have a bunch of canned food sitting around that I can give, but I do have, new toiletries that are just sitting in my, closet that I can donate. You know, like toothbrushes that the dentist keeps giving me that are still in their packaging. but I'm never gonna use because I have an electric toothbrush. Those are things that I can donate that's like part of that generosity. Did reading this trigger any, thoughts of a generous action that you can do for the Christmas season?

Sage Moreaux:

liked giving, to the, toy drive

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

in my city. And that way my kids are very fortunate and get toys at Christmas. And this way I can make sure that other kids that are less fortunate can also have toys. I used to make, when my kids were younger, it was kind of a mean mommy thing. I used to make them go with me and pick the toys out and then not get to keep

Zinzi Bree:

Oh,

Sage Moreaux:

wrap them and give them away.

Zinzi Bree:

that's so rough.

Sage Moreaux:

it was rough, but it was also like, look, you're gonna get all

Zinzi Bree:

Yeah.

Sage Moreaux:

on Christmas and this is an opportunity for you to pick something, you know, another kid would like and give it.

Zinzi Bree:

yeah,

Sage Moreaux:

so

Zinzi Bree:

that's the one.

Sage Moreaux:

to do. I will do, canned goods and stuff like that

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

but the boxes I see around town are definitely more like the toy drive boxes.

Zinzi Bree:

I wouldn't say that.

Sage Moreaux:

the book made me think about that more as zzi what you made a point earlier how, my mind was immediately like, all those super rich people need

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

as opposed to like, oh, I personally can also do more. but I don't know that it always just is like about Christmas. It's like I try and do some throughout the year and this is a nice time to do more.

Zinzi Bree:

Well, and especially because they're, you can do more, but there's also organizations ready to receive more

Sage Moreaux:

Yeah.

Zinzi Bree:

and equipped to make a bigger impact than at other times of the year. Maybe more needed this year than it has been?

Sage Moreaux:

A hundred percent.

Katherine Suzette:

Hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

I would love to do the, cozy up for holiday reading.

Zinzi Bree:

Yes. We can do this real quick. so I'm just gonna go with cozy reading. my personal vision for jolabokaflod to cozy up for reading will be sitting in this chair, with a hot chocolate next to me. My coziest fuzzy socks, a heated blanket, and a book that I will be reading both, as an ebook and also listening to the book. So, my coziest version of getting to Enjoy the book is an immersion read. that will be my cozy reading goal for Christmas.

Sage Moreaux:

I love it. I always like to give a gift of a book to everybody that I gift to. My version of a Cozy Christmas is going to be to give the members of my immediate family books so that

Zinzi Bree:

We can all

Sage Moreaux:

sit together, on the couch with blankets and hot chocolate or chai and read at the same time in silence,

Zinzi Bree:

So you'll, that's already doing a jolabokaflod. You already have a down Sage.

Sage Moreaux:

I love it.

Katherine Suzette:

I love that too. On the 26th, I would really like to curl up in a big chair or on my bed and read, just permission to not

Zinzi Bree:

Mm mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

Yeah. It's only one day a year. That's a quote, by the way, from a Christmas carol.

Zinzi Bree:

Yep. Only one day A year. That you get, a paid holiday.

Sage Moreaux:

holiday.

Zinzi Bree:

This has been Book Dragon Banter. Thank you so much for joining us. please give us a review, that's really essential and really, helps us know that we're doing a good job and, makes us more visible to, potential new listeners. I wanted to put a plugin here, I came across a YouTube video, from Topfers Library that had a list of holiday reads You'll love, no matter what kind of reading mood you're in. And it was a really great list and I'm gonna have the link in the description.'cause I really liked the books that he recommended. outside of our podcast, we have, book Dragon Inc. Writing retreats. And I personally host, Write With Me, Zinzi Bree, which is a live Zoom coworking writing group. more information about that and our social media is all down in the show notes. thank you so much for joining us.

Sage Moreaux:

happy holidays.

Zinzi Bree:

Happy holidays, Merry Christmas and we will see you in the new year.

Katherine Suzette:

Bye everyone.

Zinzi Bree:

Bye. we didn't even do book recommendations and I have not read this yet, but I'm so excited, to read JRR Tolkien's letters from Father Christmas.

Sage Moreaux:

Oh.

Zinzi Bree:

he wrote all of these, and illustrated them for his kids. And it's all about

Sage Moreaux:

Hmm.

Zinzi Bree:

Santa Father Christmas. and one of his assistants is a polar bear who keeps like, messing things up and Santa has to go fix it apparently. so that's the kids adapted Christmas Carol. And then, JRR Tolkien's letters from Santa are my plans. Read to my kids. this December, my read alouds. Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

I have one that is also a children's book, so I have a Christmas themed book that I read to my kids a couple of years ago. I thought it was a lovely read, even as an adult, but it is definitely like a middle grade children's novel writing style and everything. It's by Love Grossman, who Wrote The Magicians, which I is a

Zinzi Bree:

Mm-hmm.

Sage Moreaux:

I've really love. it's called The Silver Arrow. And it's about a child who is gifted a magical train by her uncle. Gives me a little bit of the Nutcracker vibes, which I always, the Nutcracker was, that's my big Christmas association is the Nutcracker story.

Zinzi Bree:

kind of hoping we do Nutcracker as our theme for next year's Christmas.

Sage Moreaux:

Yeah, I love that one.

Katherine Suzette:

for it.

Sage Moreaux:

So in the

Zinzi Bree:

Arrow.

Sage Moreaux:

the kids go on a magical train ride and it is so beautiful, fantastic. They have animal friends that they come across and it's contemporary in the sense that it takes place in modern times. But the story is so magical and I really like, I still think about it as an adult, just like, maybe I'm gonna reread that this Christmas.

Katherine Suzette:

my Christmas book that I've already decided that I wanna read is actually this retelling of Rumble Still Skin, which apparently is really popular already in a lot of circles, but it's silver

Zinzi Bree:

Something,

Katherine Suzette:

and it's

Zinzi Bree:

spinning Silver by Naomi Novik. Yes.

Katherine Suzette:

Yes,

Sage Moreaux:

that's on my list too.

Katherine Suzette:

that is what I want to read over the holidays.

Sage Moreaux:

I love her. I can't wait to hear how you like it.

Zinzi Bree:

I'm gonna send you guys the links to, Topfers Library, his holiday reads list, because like it's, it has some middle grade books. It has some like horror books. It has. So, the author who wrote Slew Foot that you liked, right, Katherine. he has a Krampus book

Sage Moreaux:

ooh.

Zinzi Bree:

that he,

Sage Moreaux:

even

Zinzi Bree:

that Arthur did. so like that's on the list, but also the Green Glass House, which is a middle school read where it's like an, an enchanted hotel gets full above guests that aren't supposed to be there and a kid has to go, but there's also like, here's Christmas murder mysteries, and like, it's a whole fun list. Yeah. I was like, all of these sound fantastic. they're not typical because most of the books that I'm seeing, particularly on book talk and getting advertised are much more the Christmas rom-com, basically a Hallmark movie as a book. And like, that's great. But those are onetime reads or they're potato chip reads and I'm looking for something more substantial during Christmas.

Sage Moreaux:

I love the idea.

Zinzi Bree:

I love.

Sage Moreaux:

you gotta mix some potato chips with some protein, you know, and some vegetables.

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Katherine Suzette

Co-host
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Sage Moreaux

Co-host
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Zinzi Bree

Co-host

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